@sonship saidHad you been born in Syria (for example) do you think it more likely you would now be a Muslim and have opened your heart to Allah?
@avalanchethecatOk, you've elected not to respond, so I'll just have to judge your actual response from what you have told me. It sounds to me like you didn't exercise any volition in selecting and adhering to your faith. If this is the case (do please correct me if it's not), then what possible purpose can there be in preaching your scripture here?
It i ...[text shortened]... re the foundation of the world."[/b]
Maybe that is the effect of His foreknowledge. I don't know.
@sonship
Ah, so you are now saying that "you chose" and then the belief came afterwards. This does make more sense of your preaching here. I would, however, suggest that perhaps the nature of your preaching is somewhat problematic. The large amounts of scripture you post and your attitude towards those who don't share your beliefs have, I think, quite the opposite effect from that which somebody who wanted to spread their message might desire. I think you are doing your faith a disservice by preaching here, as is evidenced by the hostility you seem to have engendered in some of those with whom you argue. I am pretty certain that they don't argue with you because they are evil or motivated by 'satan', they are arguing with you because of the way you appear to attempt to elevate yourself and disparage others using your scripture.
@sonship
Not at all, I'd be delighted to hear and discuss your views on any number of subjects, if it's possible for you to converse without pasting great chunks of scripture. I understand that it is meaningful to you, but you must surely be able to understand that it is entirely irrelevant to us heathens.
@avalanchethecat
If I do not post Bible passages to you you'll be happy for only a moment.
Then you'll probably waste no time to look for something else to whine about.
@sonship
I'm sorry you think I was whining. I was actually trying to lay a framework for some less combatative and more interesting conversation, but if you'd rather carry on slinging insults back and forth and posting irrelevant bible verses then carry on regardless, I'll leave you to it.
@avalanchethecat saidBefore you leave me, tell me if that was your decision or was it just molecules fissing around causing every thought you have quite deterministically?
@sonship
I'm sorry you think I was whining. I was actually trying to lay a framework for some less combatative and more interesting conversation, but if you'd rather carry on slinging insults back and forth and posting irrelevant bible verses then carry on regardless, I'll leave you to it.
Do you have free will or is every "decision" simply material interactions of atoms?
@sonship
That's a very big question. Certainly the subjective experience is one of free-will, but there is very good evidence to suggest that the subjective experience may not represent the actual nature of 'conscious' decision-making. Best I can say, given the data available, is that I don't know.
@avalanchethecat saidThanks.
@sonship
That's a very big question. Certainly the subjective experience is one of free-will, but there is very good evidence to suggest that the subjective experience may not represent the actual nature of 'conscious' decision-making. Best I can say, given the data available, is that I don't know.
It seems that the difficulty I have in reconciling free will and predestination you also have in reconciling free will and materialism.
I was expecting that there would be no ambiguity with the heathen position.
Enjoy your conversations with others.
@sonship
I wouldn't say I'm fully committed to the materialist position although I tend in that direction, but yes, the concept of free-will poses some interesting questions.
@suzianne saidDo you still hold with the death penalty Suzianne?
I don't believe in "eternal torture" the way most Christians do.
And you know that, and so spare me your game of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.