Gambling with eternity

@sonship said

He can and will eliminate evil. Yet He desires not to "eliminate" the one He loves but save and transform that one for eternal life.

Yet another incorrect church teaching. God hates sin and HATES SINNERS, and will destroy them. The only sinners that God loves are the ones who repent and who change their sinful ways. God loves the righteous and those who keep the commandments, and gives all who keep the commandments, eternal life.

Your statement implies that people's free will is removed. This is wrong. A man can profess his faith and God can give him the assistance and guidance through the Holy Spirit. This in no way can stop the man from sinning, neither does it grant him any exclusion or exemption from the consequences of sin.

@they removed their quoted post

I was going to address a couple of your points and then I reached this last sentence about sitting in a church. You appear to be they type who is prone to idolizing pastors, priests, church buildings and church paraphernalia. That is a dangerous practice. I can assure you that there is no guarantee that God is in the church. The bible says

, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. (John 14:23 KJV)

God and Gods Spirit dwells with all the righteous people of this world.

@sonship said
@avalanchethecat

Why does this hypothetical omniscient, omnipotent god need to eliminate evil doers?

He can and will eliminate evil. Yet He desires not to "eliminate" the one He loves but save and transform that one for eternal life.

Think of this as removing leeches clinging within and without to a person, making his life miserable. God desires to e ...[text shortened]... nity as a forgiven, saved, sanctified, transformed, resurrected, conformed to His image son of God.

Can you try to make a case without recourse to scripture? I don't regard the bible as reliable source material.

@avalanchethecat

Can you try to make a case without recourse to scripture? I don't regard the bible as reliable source material.

If there is no God from where comes your reference point of what is evil and what is good? You want me to trust your arbitrary preference as some reliable universal standard.

Why should we trust your arbitrary unenforceable ultimate standard anymore than
what Hitler's or Stalin's arbitrary preferences were?

@sonship said
If there is no God from where comes your reference point of what is evil and what is good?

Cultures and societies, communities, families, traditional beliefs, religious beliefs, consciences/moral compasses.

@sonship said
Why should we trust your arbitrary unenforceable ultimate standard anymore than what Hitler's or Stalin's arbitrary preferences were?

Your assertions rooted in your beliefs in supernatural beings and rewards and punishments are all unenforceable too.

@rajk999 said
Another pile of unbiblical nonsense. All people are damaged and supposedly sinful only because of inherited or imputed sin which came from the sin of Adam and Eve, All people do not need fixing and repair The bible is clear about certain things which are relevant but which you deliberately fail to mention because it runs contrary to your doctrine of doing nothing and gettin ...[text shortened]... churches false doctrines and the total failure to understand the purpose of the death of Christ.
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And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. -- Matthew 19:17, KJV

@FMF

Your assertions rooted in your beliefs in supernatural beings and rewards and punishments are all unenforceable too.

You don't know that.

I have to consider the person who stated that they are enforceable.
I have to take into account that person's credentials.
I have to take into consideration that person's demonstratable power and authority.
Not to mention that I have to consider the moral perfection of that person.

Then I have to make a decision:
Are the odds that his word is to be taken as probably true or not.

My bets are on the record that Someone has shown up who is qualified, equipped, authoritative, and powerful to enforce final judgment.

Fortunately that same someone has furnished at a cost to Himself so great, selflessly to provide a way of acquittal and that universal.

Now you can always hope that there will be no last judgment.
I think the evidence is for one.

@FMF

Your assertions rooted in your beliefs in supernatural beings and rewards and punishments are all unenforceable too.

Only if I totally ignore the record of the New Testament the way avalanche desires to do at the moment.

@avalanchethecat

Can you try to make a case without recourse to scripture? I don't regard the bible as reliable source material.

You'll find plenty of voices here to come in and assist you.

But I would like to hear your own answer and not assume they answer for you.

Which of these premises do you disagree with?

1.) If God exists then objective moral obligations and duties exist.

2.) Objective moral obligations and duties do exist.

3.) Therefore God exists.

Which one/s of these steps do you think are wrong?

@sonship said
@FMF

Your assertions rooted in your beliefs in supernatural beings and rewards and punishments are all unenforceable too.

You don't know that.

I have to consider the person who stated that they are enforceable.
I have to take into account that person's credentials.
I have to take into consideration that person's demonstratable power and authority.
No ...[text shortened]...

Now you can always hope that there will be no last judgment.
I think the evidence is for one.

If you think some kind of punishment is not going to be enforced on you partly because you think that that kind of punishment is going to be enforced on me [partly because I don't think it is] ~ and all this is stuff that's entirely in mind without a shred of credible evidence that any of it is going to happen ~ how does it affect me?

@sonship said
@FMF

Your assertions rooted in your beliefs in supernatural beings and rewards and punishments are all unenforceable too.

Only if I totally ignore the record of the New Testament the way avalanche desires to do at the moment.

Do you really think your threats of violent supernatural revenge can change avalanchethecat's beliefs?

@sonship said
I have to consider the person who stated that they are enforceable.
I have to take into account that person's credentials.
I have to take into consideration that person's demonstratable power and authority.
Not to mention that I have to consider the moral perfection of that person.
Then I have to make a decision:
Are the odds that his word is to be taken as probably true or not.

You have to do what you think is have to do. If you think people are going to be punished, after they die, for not thinking they have to do what you say you have to do, and if that gives your life a sense of meaning, I suppose that's harmless enough.

@sonship said
Then I have to make a decision:
Are the odds that his word is to be taken as probably true or not.

I think the odds that anything you claim this long dead man said about eternal torture when he was alive or that any of his followers have said in the meantime are zero.