I've been reading posts of many non believers here for some time. You folks seem like a pretty "facts and logic" based group, so try to wrap your heads around this:
Scenario #1 I'm a Christian, and one day I die. My faith was misplaced, there is no God, and I'm simply dead - end of story.
Scenario #2 One of you is a non believer, one day you die, only to find all that stuff in the Bible was correct - and you spend a very, very long time regretting your views.
Do you like to gamble? Good Luck! 😉
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@avalanchethecat
If I find that for a few seconds there was no Jesus Son of God and no truth in the Bible and no salvation, I'll say -
"I have NO regrets. It was the best way possible I could have lived ANYWAY."
@sonship
Again, same question as I posed to mchill, how did you settle on christianity? Were you brought up in the faith? Do you regard believers of other faiths in the same way as you regard non-believers?
Edit: Incidentally, I'm not at all interested in the scriptural basis, so I'd be pleased if you could refrain from quoting and referring to it, just for the purposes of this conversation.
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Again, same question as I posed to mchill, how did you settle on christianity?
God had mercy on me and gave me the incentive to settle on Jesus.
Sometimes traditional Christianity is a distraction from the real yet mysterious Person of the available Jesus, a living Person.
You ask how did I settle on my faith. I think I have to say it was the MERCY of God. Bottom line - I can't think of any other reason why I have the ability to believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus my Savior and Lord.
And if that sounds "sanctimonious" I'm sorry. Its just going to have to sound "sanctimonious". You did ask.
Were you brought up in the faith?
I was exposed to God in the Bible very young.
I drifted away and discarded it for agnostic like attitudes while enjoying sin [temporarily] that is. That crop of the results of sinning doesn't spring up right away. It may take some years to reap what you are sowing.
By the prayers of one person I know in particular, I came back and discovered how Jesus played a part in the whole matter of God. I thought I was running in the opposite direction. But I discovered that I was in a big HAND holding my life, running on it anyway.
Do you regard believers of other faiths in the same way as you regard non-believers?
Not exactly. I regard rejection as somewhat different from ignorance.
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Edit: Incidentally, I'm not at all interested in the scriptural basis,
I understand.
so I'd be pleased if you could refrain from quoting and referring to it, just for the purposes of this conversation.
OK. No chapter and verse to mchill.
I can still tell you that Jesus loves you without giving you chapter and verse references though.
And the Lord Jesus does love you.
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@mchill saidScenario 3: As a Christian, you have a difficult life but decide to tolerate your mortal struggles in the belief that you will be rewarded in eternity. Only God doesn't exist and your only chance of reward was in the mortal life you didn't make the most of.
I've been reading posts of many non believers here for some time. You folks seem like a pretty "facts and logic" based group, so try to wrap your heads around this:
Scenario #1 I'm a Christian, and one day I die. My faith was misplaced, there is no God, and I'm simply dead - end of story.
Scenario #2 One of you is a non believer, one day you die, only to find all that ...[text shortened]... you spend a very, very long time regretting your views.
Do you like to gamble? Good Luck! 😉
As an aside, should an atheist who genuinely does not believe in God choose to believe in Him to hedge their bets and is such a thing even possible?
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You regard followers of other faiths as simply ignorant of the 'truth'?
Yes.
But that does not mean they have absolutely NO truth.
Neither does it mean that the faiths of the world do not here or there have their hands on SOME truth.
To the degree that they contain SOME truth, that may be the power of their attraction in some cases. All truth is God's truth.
@sonship
But you regard your 'truth' as fully true, and that of other faiths as possibly having some 'truth' unless it is at variance with what you believe?
Also, is there a volitional component of your faith? Was there a point where you thought "hmm, this sounds good, I'm going to be religious now", while not already holding the belief?
@mchill saidGod has no religion. Jesus Christ has no religion, neither did Jesus start any religion. God sent Jesus to die for the sins all people of the world. The doctrine taught by some churches that Jesus died for Christians, and the rest of the world is going to hell, is just plain unbiblical nonsense. All religion is made up by men. Sometimes religion is good and sometimes religion is evil. In any event, passages like this from the teachings of Christ should not escape you:
I've been reading posts of many non believers here for some time. You folks seem like a pretty "facts and logic" based group, so try to wrap your heads around this:
Scenario #1 I'm a Christian, and one day I die. My faith was misplaced, there is no God, and I'm simply dead - end of story.
Scenario #2 One of you is a non believer, one day you die, only to find all that ...[text shortened]... you spend a very, very long time regretting your views.
Do you like to gamble? Good Luck! 😉
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. (Matthew 16:27 KJV)
Do you know what every man means? EVERY MAN according to his WORKS. Not some men according to their faith.
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Edit: And how do you regard those who 'reject' your particular faith? The use of the word 'rejection' implies a certain, um, prejudice, let's say.
Prejudice is not a dirty word in itself. I am prejudice against rattlesnakes. I don't want to be bitten by one.
I feel God came down to win and woo my soul. This is like a lover.
Of course it is not totally a matter of His love.
It is also a matter of His desire that I be reconciled to His infinite righteousness against which I stand in trouble.
To turn to this wooing and courting lover may take a long time.
The poster mchill wants me not to use bible references. But God had a man such as Saul of Tarsus a fierce obsessed enemy of the message as an example of His longsuffering to turn an enemy around.
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avalanchthecat,
So I know that to be subdued by Christ's seeking and convicting of His love for you and your need for Him may take even a life time.
But the thing is, you don't know when time will be up for you to make a choice.
Are you guaranteed to wake up tomorrow?
Not really. Actually, not at all.
So one should not delay in procrastination to be saved forever from appearing before God guilt ridden with iniquity.
It is a hard concept for some. Behind the whole universe stands One who is flawless, perfect, perfection, holy and distinct from all other things that exist in a moral RIGHTNESS, even a gloriously undefiled moral perfection.
He became a man so that He could die for us.
Because He became a man He could die.
Because He is God the significance of His death has eternal power and infinite significance.
@sonship
You seem to be saying that there is indeed a volitional component, that in order to be able to believe in your religion, one must first choose to do so. Is this the case, do you think?
Edit: Again, more prejudicial terms! Guilt! Iniquity! Do you really believe that the only reason some people are not religious is because they prefer to be iniquitous?
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You seem to be saying that there is indeed a volitional component, that in order to be able to believe in your religion, one must first choose to do so. Is this the case, do you think?
Philosophically it is not easy to understand or explain. For centuries we have agreed that this is not easy to explain. For thousand years plus smarter people then both of us have acknowledged there is a paradox with an Almighty God and a creature free to come to him or to go after another in the opposite direction.
At present when I consider it, there is a sense to it.
Something like this:
1.) A perfect God.
2.) A free created creature.
3.) A greatest possible blessing.
4.) A greatest possible offense.
Sometimes when I muse on this, it seems that it could hardly be any other way.
If there is a greatest good above which there could be no greater then there must be a greatest offense against that.
With this thought in mind, reading again the Gospel of John or of Luke might cause some new light. For certain Jesus Himself in His version of Who He was and Why He came seems that this was the foundation for His act of supreme obedience to His Father.
In one place (mchill ignore for a moment) Jesus said He came not to be served but to serve and to give His life as a ransom for many. In other words He saw Himself as a Slave to God and man because of this situation.