Originally posted by generalissimo I have no reason to believe my life would be any better in such place of simplicity and comfort than it is now, if the world does not meet our standards it is our duty to make it better, by any means necessary.
What? You mean this current world is better than a place where you have no death or suffering? Would you prefer to have the current elites rule over us who think they are all knowing and all powerful than a holy God that IS all knowing and powerful?
I suppose you don't buy the whole Revelation scenrio. You know, where the nations of the earth are left to their own devices and end up coming to a place where they are on the verge of destroying themselves before God intervenes to save humanity.
Originally posted by whodey It seems to me that we all have a longing to return to the garden, a place of tranquility and bliss. You see this as people try to achieve this garden politically, economically etc., but all become abject failures in the end.
However, if you were able, would you return to the garden mentioned in the Bible so that you could commune with God face to face, or do you prefer where you are now?
are you kidding? living in Paradise, temperate weather, with a perfect women, looking after the earth, living forever, developing ones talents to the full, how good does it get!
Originally posted by whodey If it existed would you prefer it to this world?
Honestly!? there are pros and cons to this fairy tale state of being you envisage; in my opinion, many of the pros seem only transient, and in the long run I see the cons have more weight.
So if you ask would I prefer it for the next 60 years...ok (though me and all other humans being on their best behaviour (no banter, watching 'p's and 'q's etc...) all the time would be most annoying).
If for eternity...no.
Originally posted by Agerg Adam and Eve supposedly didn't...and that talking serpent sure sounds like a clever old sausage! (he certainly pulled the wool over your god's eyes first time round)
Moreover it only takes one person...just one to take one little bite and your god will injudiciously condemn everyone to whatever ethereal garbage container he reserves for the truly wicked (like us atheists) 😲
Not true at all. If you understood why God has allowed things to go on as he has since Adam disobeyed God and the downfall of mankind and what he has done and will do in the near future to correct what we have done to ourselves, THEN you would understand why God would never allow the legal challenge that Satan presented to God and which has failed, to NEVER happen again.
Your only seeing what's on the surface but there has been a legal issue at stake from the time Satan challenged God's authority at the Garden of Eden.
Originally posted by Agerg Honestly!? there are pros and cons to this fairy tale state of being you envisage; in my opinion, many of the pros seem only transient, and in the long run I see the cons have more weight.
So if you ask would I prefer it for the next 60 years...ok (though me and all other humans being on their best behaviour (no banter, watching 'p's and 'q's etc...) all the time would be most annoying).
If for eternity...no.
So you would prefer death over an eternity in the Bible paradise known as Eden? Hmm.
Originally posted by whodey So you would prefer death over an eternity in the Bible paradise known as Eden? Hmm.
In my opinion, an eternal existence anywhere is an unsavoury thought. Moreover, the traits that define me and my character will be stripped away so to mould me into a person fit for living beside your god. In effect I'd become yet another bore with lots of company.
Once I die my perception of the universe and ability to carry any thoughts about what it's like being dead die with me. I didn't care about not being alive before I was born and I'm sure I'll be equally unconcerned when I'm dead.
Originally posted by Agerg In my opinion, an eternal existence anywhere is an unsavoury thought. Moreover, the traits that define me and my character will be stripped away so to mould me into a person fit for living beside your god. In effect I'd become yet another bore with lots of company.
Once I die my perception of the universe and ability to carry any thoughts about what it's li ...[text shortened]... not being alive before I was born and I'm sure I'll be equally unconcerned when I'm dead.
not so, you would have aeons to develop your talents, i mean, do you get bored of food because you eat it every day, hardly, every time it tastes good and satisfying!
Originally posted by robbie carrobie not so, you would have aeons to develop your talents, i mean, do you get bored of food because you eat it every day, hardly, every time it tastes good and satisfying!
It wouldn't be *me*, the slightly sarcastic, banter loving human with his own opinions of what is good, bad, and proper living in that fairy tale place; it would be some person who agrees that whatever God_{whodey} says is good is maximally good, what it says is bad as wickedly evil, who wouldn't say boo to a goose (there presumably wouldn't be any geese up there of course) and is constantly on his best behaviour around people who've wronged him in this life lacking the capacity to be annoyed with them and give them a piece of my mind. All the things about me which my friends find funny would be stripped away; and with an eternity to develop my talents in any discipline I would require God_{whodey} to constantly erode my knowledge so to retain any new avenues of learning to explore.
I'd just be some random husk pointlessly existing to glorify the ego of God_{whodey}
As for food, having never eaten an unimaginably large amount X of all the different food types, I can't really say with any surety my enjoyment of eating it would be so strong where I to eat (X^...^(X^(X))...) (for example) as much again, as it was when I took my first ever bite.
Originally posted by Agerg I'd just be some random husk mindlessly living to glorify the ego of God_{whodey}
Which seems to defeat the purpose of this "earth trial" run. We have all this freewill only so we can be contained in a realm for eternity bound by further conditions for the glorification of this guy who put us all through it? Seems wholly redundant, contradictory, and boring, and, well, something a sadistic human would do, which I suppose, god is just an exaggeration of.
For everyone else claiming paradise is a great place, it didn't seem to occupy Satan to a satisfaction.
Originally posted by ua41 Which seems to defeat the purpose of this "earth trial" run. We have all this freewill only so we can be contained in a realm for eternity bound by further conditions for the glorification of this guy who put us all through it? Seems wholly redundant, contradictory, and boring, and, well, something a sadistic human would do, which I suppose, god is just an exag ...[text shortened]... ne else claiming paradise is a great place, it didn't seem to occupy Satan to a satisfaction.
Exactly.
The bible story is no more credible than other possibilities like:
1. we really are in 'The Matrix'
2. we are sitting in a holodeck (star-trek style), with the safeties turned off and no memory of our life prior to entering the holodeck
3. the entire universe (and us in it) are a sophisticated program generated by some fancy quantum computer network and there is no 'true' physical reality
4. we are already dead (or maybe comotose like in Vanilla Sky movie?) and living out in a virtual world of the mind etc.
The bible story is no more credible than other possibilities like:
1. we really are in 'The Matrix'
2. we are sitting in a holodeck (star-trek style), with the safeties turned off and no memory of our life prior to entering the holodeck
3. the entire universe (and us in it) are a sophisticated program generated by some fancy quantum comput ...[text shortened]... aybe comotose like in Vanilla Sky movie?) and living out in a virtual world of the mind etc.
or
5. we are experiencing a dream (or a nightmare) and will eventually wake up to the real world.
6. we are characters in a movie, and everytime the movie is played we do exactly the same as the last time someone played the movie.
7. we are all dead and this is hell, we call it real life becausu we don't know better.
8. the life *is* RedHotPawn, there is no normal life outside RHP.
All these possibilities remind me of Plato's cave- very appropriate allegory to this day 😀
I'll have to agree with Fabian, there is no normal life outside RHP
Originally posted by ua41 Which seems to defeat the purpose of this "earth trial" run. We have all this freewill only so we can be contained in a realm for eternity bound by further conditions for the glorification of this guy who put us all through it? Seems wholly redundant, contradictory, and boring, and, well, something a sadistic human would do, which I suppose, god is just an exag ...[text shortened]... ne else claiming paradise is a great place, it didn't seem to occupy Satan to a satisfaction.
Good point indeed! and Satan was once, as far as I have gathered, one of God_{whodey}'s bestest ever Angels in the whole wide universes evah! Such potential transcending ours and he also found this twinkle-dust garden to be somewhat lacking in flavour!
Originally posted by Agerg It wouldn't be *me*, the slightly sarcastic, banter loving human with his own opinions of what is good, bad, and proper living in that fairy tale place; it would be some person who agrees that whatever God_{whodey} says is good is maximally good, what it says is bad as wickedly evil, who wouldn't say boo to a goose (there presumably wouldn't be any geese up th ...[text shortened]... (X^...^(X^(X))...) (for example) as much again, as it was when I took my first ever bite.
well the fact that it wouldn't be you does not negate the fact that it would be awesome. It seems to me you have the impression that its elsewhere where in fact the Bible makes it clear that its an earthly physical paradise. Please explain why you think that your personality would be stripped away? Is there not variety in life? Is not every snowflake different and carries its own persona? when we paint a picture is it not distinguished by being different than others although still a painting?
You have at present seventy or eighty years, hardly enough time to master one discipline, and yet you are trying to assert that God would 'erode', your knowledge so as to retain new avenues to explore? Does one learn to swim and forget it? does one learn to play the guitar and forget it? Hardly! During the present existence we use a very small proportion of the capacity of our minds, given the correct physical and spiritual environment the options for learning and experience are limitless!
Garden of Eden
21 Jan '11 03:02
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