1. Joined
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    20 Jan '11 15:48
    It seems to me that we all have a longing to return to the garden, a place of tranquility and bliss. You see this as people try to achieve this garden politically, economically etc., but all become abject failures in the end.

    However, if you were able, would you return to the garden mentioned in the Bible so that you could commune with God face to face, or do you prefer where you are now?
  2. Standard memberAgerg
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    20 Jan '11 15:552 edits
    Originally posted by whodey
    It seems to me that we all have a longing to return to the garden, a place of tranquility and bliss. You see this as people try to achieve this garden politically, economically etc., but all become abject failures in the end.

    However, if you were able, would you return to the garden mentioned in the Bible so that you could commune with God face to face, or do you prefer where you are now?
    I think what you meant to say is:

    A fairy tale place of tranquility and bliss with naughty talking serpents that will try to get you evicted.
  3. Joined
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    20 Jan '11 18:32
    Originally posted by whodey
    It seems to me that we all have a longing to return to the garden, a place of tranquility and bliss. You see this as people try to achieve this garden politically, economically etc., but all become abject failures in the end.

    However, if you were able, would you return to the garden mentioned in the Bible so that you could commune with God face to face, or do you prefer where you are now?
    You will have to look forward to New Jerusalem.
  4. Joined
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    20 Jan '11 18:371 edit
    Originally posted by Agerg
    I think what you meant to say is:

    A fairy tale place of tranquility and bliss with naughty talking serpents that will try to get you evicted.
    Where there is no vision, the people perish; but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.
  5. Joined
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    20 Jan '11 18:41
    Originally posted by gambit3
    You will have to look forward to New Jerusalem.
    New Jerusalem is not a place to which we go as much as something the believers become.

    The "going to" the New Jerusalem is a "going" there by transformation. The redeemed become the holy city, the Bride and Wife of the Lamb, and the tabernacle of God.

    Again, we who are saved will not so much as "go" to the New Jerusalem as become through God's complete salvation the New Jerusalem.
  6. Standard memberAgerg
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    20 Jan '11 18:43
    Originally posted by gambit3
    Where there is no vision, the people perish; but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.
    Can't make any sense of this.
  7. Pepperland
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    20 Jan '11 18:50
    Originally posted by whodey
    It seems to me that we all have a longing to return to the garden, a place of tranquility and bliss. You see this as people try to achieve this garden politically, economically etc., but all become abject failures in the end.

    However, if you were able, would you return to the garden mentioned in the Bible so that you could commune with God face to face, or do you prefer where you are now?
    I have no reason to believe my life would be any better in such place of simplicity and comfort than it is now, if the world does not meet our standards it is our duty to make it better, by any means necessary.
  8. Joined
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    20 Jan '11 18:51
    Originally posted by whodey
    It seems to me that we all have a longing to return to the garden, a place of tranquility and bliss. You see this as people try to achieve this garden politically, economically etc., but all become abject failures in the end.

    However, if you were able, would you return to the garden mentioned in the Bible so that you could commune with God face to face, or do you prefer where you are now?
    Of course. Why wouldn't any human want to live in such a place instead of this world we live in now and to have the kind of relationship with God that he originally intended?
  9. Standard memberAgerg
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    20 Jan '11 18:553 edits
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Of course. Why wouldn't any human want to live in such a place instead of this world we live in now and to have the kind of relationship with God that he originally intended?
    Because we'll always be living under the overwhelming desire to eat a naughty apple from the naughty tree...and a naughty serpent will always be there pushing us towards it.
  10. weedhopper
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    20 Jan '11 21:03
    Originally posted by whodey
    It seems to me that we all have a longing to return to the garden, a place of tranquility and bliss. You see this as people try to achieve this garden politically, economically etc., but all become abject failures in the end.

    However, if you were able, would you return to the garden mentioned in the Bible so that you could commune with God face to face, or do you prefer where you are now?
    The former.
  11. Joined
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    20 Jan '11 21:121 edit
    Originally posted by jaywill
    New Jerusalem is not a place to which we go as much as something the believers [b]become.

    The "going to" the New Jerusalem is a "going" there by transformation. The redeemed become the holy city, the Bride and Wife of the Lamb, and the tabernacle of God.

    Again, we who are saved will not so much as "go" to the New Jerusalem as become through God's complete salvation the New Jerusalem.[/b]
    I believe New Jerusalem is a literal physical place.
  12. Joined
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    20 Jan '11 21:50
    Originally posted by gambit3
    I believe New Jerusalem is a literal physical place.
    =====================
    I believe New Jerusalem is a literal physical place.
    =============================


    In that we are physical and will have glorified bodies, yes, I agree with a physical place in that sense.

    But the Revelation was made known to John how? ... "by SIGNS" (Rev. 1:1)

    The last and comsummate "sign" of the whole Bible is this New Jerusalem seen in Revelation 21, 22. This is how we should know -

    The New Jerusalem is called the Bride and the Wife of Christ. We are already told in Ephesians 5 that the church is the wife of Christ (Eph. 5:23-28). If the ekklesia is the wife of Christ then the New Jerusalem should not be another wife that is made of stones and gigantic pearls and gold. God would not decide that instead of bringing the living church to Christ to be His wife, He would then change His mind and have Christ marry a physical city.

    This New Jerusalem must be transformed people, as the church is PEOPLE.
    Because it now has on its foundations the names of the twelve apostles of Christ and on its gates the names of the twelve tribes of Israel, it must be the enlarged and consummate body of all the saved from both dispensations.

    Other reasons I may present in another post. This should be tested.
  13. Joined
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    20 Jan '11 22:53
    Originally posted by Agerg
    Because we'll always be living under the overwhelming desire to eat a naughty apple from the naughty tree...and a naughty serpent will always be there pushing us towards it.
    Well...you could just say NO if that were to exist again. Couldn't you?
  14. Standard memberAgerg
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    20 Jan '11 23:134 edits
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Well...you could just say NO if that were to exist again. Couldn't you?
    Adam and Eve supposedly didn't...and that talking serpent sure sounds like a clever old sausage! (he certainly pulled the wool over your god's eyes first time round)


    Moreover it only takes one person...just one to take one little bite and your god will injudiciously condemn everyone to whatever ethereal garbage container he reserves for the truly wicked (like us atheists) 😲
  15. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    21 Jan '11 00:131 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    It seems to me that we all have a longing to return to the garden, a place of tranquility and bliss. You see this as people try to achieve this garden politically, economically etc., but all become abject failures in the end.

    However, if you were able, would you return to the garden mentioned in the Bible so that you could commune with God face to face, or do you prefer where you are now?
    The only thing I prefer is that my Joy Division discography set would bloody work!

    I used up all my credit dowloading that.
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