Genesis 1:1 , John 1:1

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Apologies for replying to just one part of your post.

It's true that an atheist (myself included) put our trust in the authority of others. I think this is very different however from a theist putting their trust in the authority of the bible. An atheist doesn't have all his eggs in one unyielding and rigid basket and is at liberty to seek alternative authority if so required.

Yeah , that line struck me as well.

It seems clear that atheists put way less trust in the authority of others.

Also the main point is that Christians have faith in unproved forces,whereas atheists only give authority to those 'forces' which are proven and rational.

Originally posted by sonship

Hey, that almost sounds Buddhist.

Its the other way around. Buddhism sometimes sounds like the Holy Bible.

Even though the Buddha was around 500 years before christ and some historians claim that JC travelled to India to get his religious/spiritual training.

What is true is that since the fall of man, people have developed various techniques to unleash latent soul power. These techniques come under what I would call science of the soul or science of the mind.

Some adherents of these disciplines are able to do things which could sometimes be called miraculous.

A COMMON PRINCIPLE

Whether in China, Europe, or the United States, and whether it is breathing exercises, asceticism, meditations, hypnosis, predictions, telepathy, or pathetism, they all cultivate the inward power and its expressions. I think you all have heard of many miraculous things done through hypnotism. In China there are many fortune-tellers who have done many things that we are all familiar with. Every day they can only see a few clients. Their skill comes from much cultivation and exercise. Their fortune-tellings are surprisingly accurate. Some other techniques developed by Taoism and Buddhism also perform miraculous things. Although there are many counterfeits, there are also many true supernatural manifestations. There is no other explanation except that these people have either stumbled upon a way, or are instructed by evil spirits, to release the power to perform extraordinary acts through certain exercises. Ordinary men do not know that this power is within them. Those with some scientific knowledge know that this power is within them, but they do not know where it lies. We, who have been taught by God, know that this power is the latent power within man's soul. The power became fallen when Adam fell and is now locked up in the flesh. This power is fallen, and God has ordained that man should no longer use this power. However, Satan likes to develop this latent power and make man realize the many riches within him. Satan makes man think that he is God and thus fulfills his promise that man "shall be as gods" (Gen. 3:5). Consequently, man worships himself, and indirectly Satan, and loses his position before God. Therefore, Satan is behind all study of psychology. He is trying his best to utilize the latent power of the soul to fulfill his purpose. All those who try to develop their soulish power cannot avoid being utilized by and being close to the evil spirits.

Collected Works of Watchman Nee, The (Set 1) Vol. 10: The Present Testimony (3) by Watchman Nee [Living Stream Publishers]

Also published by another publisher under the title "The Latent Power of the Soul"

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Yeah , that line struck me as well.

It seems clear that atheists put way less trust in the authority of others.

Also the main point is that Christians have faith in unproved forces,whereas atheists only give authority to those 'forces' which are proven and rational.

That is simply nonsense, atheists are very willing to give credence to unobserved phenomena regarding the origins of the universe and the origins of life, let me repeat that so that there can be no mistake- unobserved phenomena!

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Apologies for replying to just one part of your post.

It's true that an atheist (myself included) put our trust in the authority of others. I think this is very different however from a theist putting their trust in the authority of the bible. An atheist doesn't have all his eggs in one unyielding and rigid basket and is at liberty to seek alternative authority if so required.

What you call 'rigid' and 'unyielding', I agree can apply to many theist posters and other theists, but please keep in mind that there are many atheists here as well who are quite 'rigid' and 'unyielding' in their beliefs about theists. All the while, there are theists who are not so rigid or unyielding as to not consider the role of science in understanding our environment (local and universal). Authority comes from authority, and as such, is earned, whether it be in the realm of science, or the realm of theology.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Hey, that almost sounds Buddhist.

The infinite is like the wind. How can the wind be held in a book.

However, if one never actually goes outside, the wind can and should be described in a book for those who have no direct experience of it.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
That is simply nonsense, atheists are very willing to give credence to unobserved phenomena regarding the origins of the universe and the origins of life, let me repeat that so that there can be no mistake- unobserved phenomena!

The universe is anything but "unobserved" or "unobservable".

I thank you all for your contributions. Could we please focus on the main topic of discussion?

Originally posted by Tshotsho Khalapa
I thank you all for your contributions. Could we please focus on the main topic of discussion?

The secret to surviving in this forum is to spend less time telling everyone else to stay on topic and more time actually staying on topic yourself by answering questions or posting your on topic opinions.
What is the topic by the way?
My reading of the OP was: 'I am right! No discussion!'.

Originally posted by Suzianne
However, if one never actually goes outside, the wind can and should be described in a book for those who have no direct experience of it.

But can the wind ever truly be understood by someone who has never experience it blowing against their skin? Surely the answer is that you 'have' to go outside, that wind (like truth) can not be held prisoner in a book, never fully contained.

Originally posted by twhitehead
The secret to surviving in this forum is to spend less time telling everyone else to stay on topic and more time actually staying on topic yourself by answering questions or posting your on topic opinions.
What is the topic by the way?
My reading of the OP was: 'I am right! No discussion!'.

Thank you twhitehead. I would like contributions to be based on Bible verses and the main topic of discussion is that Jesus Christ and Jehovah are one. What is your opinion? I do not mean to be personal, but you seem not to interested in this particular topic.

Originally posted by Tshotsho Khalapa
Thank you twhitehead. I would like contributions to be based on Bible verses and the main topic of discussion is that Jesus Christ and Jehovah are one. What is your opinion? I do not mean to be personal, but you seem not to interested in this particular topic.

But why have a discussion about something you claim can be proven beyond all reasonable doubt?
I think you already know my opinion on the topic: I am an atheist ie I believe Jesus and Jehovah are both fictional characters. I also believe that you can make Bible verses mean pretty much whatever you want them to mean and that you will never change your mind whatever Bible verses are presented to you that appear to contradict your position.

Originally posted by Tshotsho Khalapa
Thank you twhitehead. I would like contributions to be based on Bible verses and the main topic of discussion is that Jesus Christ and Jehovah are one. What is your opinion? I do not mean to be personal, but you seem not to interested in this particular topic.

Here is a useful link:

http://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.co.uk/

Lots of Bible verses in there.

Now tell me, what are you going to do with this?

Originally posted by twhitehead
But why have a discussion about something you claim can be proven beyond all reasonable doubt?
I think you already know my opinion on the topic: I am an atheist ie I believe Jesus and Jehovah are both fictional characters. I also believe that you can make Bible verses mean pretty much whatever you want them to mean and that you will never change your mind whatever Bible verses are presented to you that appear to contradict your position.

I indicated that this particular argument can be confirmed by using Bible FACTS. As you have said you do'nt believe in God then I believe you and I will never agree on this topic. So long twhitehead- thank you for all your contributions. I believe in Jesus of Nazareth. I believe in God almighty. I belive in the Holy spirit. In my times of troubles I call on Jesus to come to my rescue and indeed He has helped me in countles unbearable situations.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I am not a 'believer'. My point is that if you claim something can be 'proved beyond reasonable doubt' and then later say that it is conditional on someone believing the same things you do, then you are not being very logical.

[b]I wish to know more on the "anonymous" that you referred to.
You are anonymous. I do not know you from Adam. You can't ...[text shortened]... ce of information? Do you ask your doctor to quote Bible verses before prescribing you medicine?[/b]

I would not like you to refer to me as an anonynous poster. My reasons are as follows: 1. I am an online chess player, registered at RHP
2. My user name is Tshotsho Khalapa
3. RHP management have my email adress.
4. I am an active, regular chess player and RHP management can detect my daily log.
5. I have over 20 regular challenges.
6. I have never asked the RHP management to register my post as a post from anonymous.
7. I have joined 2 chess clubs at RHP.
8. I have got new friends for life at RHP- I thank God for that.

The points indicated above
Suggest that instead of reffering to me as an anonymous you could at least have said that I am an RHP online chess player with user name Tshotsho Khalapa.