Originally posted by twhiteheadNo it does not add up to them being right, it only adds up to them giving the same
But it does add up to them being almost certainly right. It is, in fact, a probability argument that does have mathematics to back it up (unlike your argument against evolution).
If we date something by annual weather cycles - eg tree rings or ice cores - then either we are reasonably correct or the earth went around the sun much faster in the past or so ...[text shortened]... what source will you go to to see if your ruler is telling the truth? There is no such source.
answer, NOT the same thing. My argument against evolution you will never see,
again, because you are a true believer there is nothing beyond it, evolution
according to you and those like you believe can over come everything. There is
nothing it cannot do, there is no boundary it cannot over come, sort of godlike. 🙂
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayIt is not the same thing, and it is not what I said either. I said it adds up to them almost certainly being right. If there are two different ways of measuring something and the results match, then the probability of them being right greatly increases.
No it does not add up to them being right, it only adds up to them giving the same
answer, NOT the same thing.
I see you still haven't said how the doctor knows your blood sugar level even though all tests you know of are unreliable.
My argument against evolution you will never see,
again, because you are a true believer there is nothing beyond it, evolution
according to you and those like you believe can over come everything. There is
nothing it cannot do, there is no boundary it cannot over come, sort of godlike. 🙂
Kelly
Yes, you say that over and over and over, but you haven't shown it to be the case. You are giving up on the argument because you have failed to support it. You started off with a strawman (and you admit as such), then try to maintain that strawman even after admitting it is a strawman, by being vague and repeating over and over that you are skeptical.
1. I do not believe that there is no boundary it can over come.
2. I do believe that it is perfectly reasonable to believe what it has achieved based on the evidence. You have not shown that it is unreasonable, you have merely expressed skepticism based on ignorance.
Originally posted by KellyJayThey were alive then they died, and they died in such a way where a large number
They were alive then they died, and they died in such a way where a large number
of them became fossils. If my "beliefs" about the age of the earth are correct than
it isn't that we see fossils that are part of the issue, but how we date them. So have
we now left the ability of evolution to cause life to change and are you now moving
into the date issue ...[text shortened]... tter if you have millions or
billions of years to do it, it isn't going to happen.
Kelly
of them became fossils.
We can agree on that. But do date, only 500+ different dinosaur genera have been identified, although that is increasing by 10-20 every year. When you consider that around 250,000 species have been identified in the fossil record dinosaurs represent a small fraction of that number.
If my "beliefs" about the age of the earth are correct than it isn't that we see fossils that are part of the issue, but how we date them.
They're not correct, neither are your views on evolution.
As far as I'm concern I can be wrong about time so I don't spend a lot of time worring about it.
I'm not quite what sure say really. All animals have only been on the planet for a few thousand years? Utterly bonkers. When i started this conversation i actually thought we could have a somewhat decent discussion, but it's ended up in a farce. Looking back on our discussion a lot makes sense now though in light of this revelation.
There's so many questions that i could ask, but i'll stick to one for the time being.
1. Where do we fit into your scheme of life? How long have we been on the planet?
So have we now left the ability of evolution to cause life to change and are you now moving into the date issue of this discussion?
This is an organic process, it will go where your answers and my questions lead us.
Originally posted by twhiteheadNo one can support an arguement against evolution on anything to you, you do not
It is not the same thing, and it is not what I said either. I said it adds up to them almost certainly being right. If there are two different ways of measuring something and the results match, then the probability of them being right greatly increases.
I see you still haven't said how the doctor knows your blood sugar level even though all tests you k ...[text shortened]... ve not shown that it is unreasonable, you have merely expressed skepticism based on ignorance.
accept anything beyond the ability of evolution to do! There is nothing that cannot
be done by it, so whatever numbers are brought up you will ignore them.
Kelly
Originally posted by twhiteheadI've based skepticism based upon my experience with complex systems, you
It is not the same thing, and it is not what I said either. I said it adds up to them almost certainly being right. If there are two different ways of measuring something and the results match, then the probability of them being right greatly increases.
I see you still haven't said how the doctor knows your blood sugar level even though all tests you k ...[text shortened]... ve not shown that it is unreasonable, you have merely expressed skepticism based on ignorance.
express faith based upon....your beliefs.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayAnd so you keep saying over and over, but thats all it is, you making an unsubstantiated claim. Why are you so convinced that nobody can support an argument against evolution to me? Why are you convinced that I do not accept anything beyond the ability of evolution to do? Nothing I have said indicates that.
No one can support an arguement against evolution on anything to you, you do not
accept anything beyond the ability of evolution to do! There is nothing that cannot
be done by it, so whatever numbers are brought up you will ignore them.
Kelly
Whatever numbers you bring up, I am willing to look at. But if you bring up a strawman, I will name it for what it is. If you have other numbers, then present them. So far, you are still trying to hang on to the strawman from the OP. You have not presented any other numbers whatsoever, yet you claim I will reject any numbers out of hand. That seems a somewhat unfair accusation.
Originally posted by KellyJayBut you know perfectly well that all systems, complex or otherwise have random inputs. Yet you claim your experience shows that complex systems can never survive with random inputs - an outright falsehood. What experience is this you are talking about?
I've based skepticism based upon my experience with complex systems, you
express faith based upon....your beliefs.
Kelly
My beliefs regarding evolution are based on the evidence - and you know that.
Originally posted by RJHindsI posted that reason to see if anyone agrees that the fossil record was created by Satan to fool us, or by God as a test of faith. So far, no one has agreed with it openly.
Forget about it. It is simply not true. It's like the
theory of evolution, not true.
Has anyone here who has stated a theory about why so-called fossils were created and put into the earth so as to appear to be millions of years old? Is there any guidance in the Bible? Is there any evidence that Biblical people were aware of fossils, say, in eroded cliffs? I've sometimes wondered if the Nephilim were imagined to exist based on large fossilized bones being found.
Originally posted by KellyJay“...evolution according to you and those like you believe can over come everything. There is
No it does not add up to them being right, it only adds up to them giving the same
answer, NOT the same thing. My argument against evolution you will never see,
again, because you are a true believer there is nothing beyond it, evolution
according to you and those like you believe can over come everything. There is
nothing it cannot do, there is no boundary it cannot over come, sort of godlike. 🙂
Kelly
nothing it cannot do, there is no boundary it cannot over come, ...”
what are you talking about?
Evolution cannot credibly do many things and none of us have said nor believe the contrary.
For example, evolution cannot produce something as complex as a human without credibly producing no flaws.
Biological evolution cannot credibly produce a metal car or solve integral equations or stop planets orbiting or tell us how to stop the greenhouse effect or credibly turn a human into an onion.
Evolution, just like any process, has limits.
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Originally posted by JS357actually your argument rests on the false premise that the Bible creative days were
I posted that reason to see if anyone agrees that the fossil record was created by Satan to fool us, or by God as a test of faith. So far, no one has agreed with it openly.
Has anyone here who has stated a theory about why so-called fossils were created and put into the earth so as to appear to be millions of years old? Is there any guidance in the Bible? I es wondered if the Nephilim were imagined to exist based on large fossilized bones being found.
literal twenty four hour periods. Only, as far as I am aware, seven day adventists
ascribe to this, when you of course realise that a day may be interpreted to include an
unspecified duration of time, such as in the saying, 'in my fathers day', the wheels fall
off the argument, for clearly then, the creative days were very long. This can also be
established Biblically for Paul speaks of still being in God rest, that is, on the seventh
day thousands of years later.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIt not his argument, he was asking if there are any Christians on this forum who subscribe to either of the following -
actually your argument rests on the false premise that the Bible creative days were
literal twenty four hour periods. Only, as far as I am aware, seven day adventists
ascribe to this, when you of course realise that a day may be interpreted to include an
unspecified duration of time, such as in the saying, 'in my fathers day', the wheels fall
...[text shortened]... aul speaks of still being in God rest, that is, on the seventh
day thousands of years later.
1. Dinosaur fossils were put here on earth by God himself to test peoples faith.
or
2. Dinosaur fossils were put here by Satan to trick people.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieA day (or any other term) may be interpreted to mean whatever you like and whatever suits your mood and whatever helps to evade an argument and of course there is no useful reason to engage in debate on such terms.
when you of course realise that a day may be interpreted to include an unspecified duration of time,
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Originally posted by twhiteheadI don't think it is unfair accusation, rather a very truthful one. I can post odds
And so you keep saying over and over, but thats all it is, you making an unsubstantiated claim. Why are you so convinced that nobody can support an argument against evolution to me? Why are you convinced that I do not accept anything beyond the ability of evolution to do? Nothing I have said indicates that.
Whatever numbers you bring up, I am willing to ...[text shortened]... r, yet you claim I will reject any numbers out of hand. That seems a somewhat unfair accusation.
here, but I'd be willing to look at yours for even the simplist life forms getting
formed.
Kelly
Originally posted by twhiteheadI don't think writing is 6000 years old. The Sumerians invented it in ~3,000 BCE. Genesis was also written about this time.
Just to help your doubt along:
Writing is believed to be at least 6000 years old.
Archeological evidence however shows human settlements around much of the world going back quite a bit further. Agriculture for example appears to be about 10,000 years old.
There are trees that are believed to be older than 5,000 years.
Genetic studies of humans sugge ...[text shortened]... from other data such as from geological sources.)
Other dating methods show far greater ages.
Originally posted by KellyJayYou didn't answer my post Kelly?!
No one can support an arguement against evolution on anything to you, you do not
accept anything beyond the ability of evolution to do! There is nothing that cannot
be done by it, so whatever numbers are brought up you will ignore them.
Kelly
There's so many questions that i could ask, but i'll stick to one for the time being.
1. Where do we fit into your scheme of life? How long have we been on the planet?