Originally posted by KellyJayThe very first mistake you make is in thinking that the Genesis 1 and 2 are actual historical documents, instead of the allegory that they are. Allegory does not require one to believe the impossible, but to understand the story. For sure God created the universe, all life exists because of his mighty works, but the world is not, repeat, not 6-12,000 years old.
That's all fine and good, I'm quite sure you can pick and choose those parts of
scripture you think are good which you think are not. I'm not attempting to force
my beliefs on anyone here, he asks me I'm going to give him an honest answer.
You don't like my answers that is fine and good, you want me to lie, not going to
happen just to be accepted. As fa ...[text shortened]... fill it up with life as its recorded in scripture, human
acceptance not required.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayHow far away is the closest sun? How long does it take for light to get here from that sun? Now think about some of the furthest stars. Some of what we see as stars are in actuality galaxies. We know they are galaxies because of the amazing pictures we have taken of them with the hubble telescope etc...If that galaxy is 100 million light years away then it stands to reason that the light we are seeing originated 100million years ago. Therefore creation could not have occurred a mere 6-12,000 years ago.
What obvious facts are you refering to by the way?
Kelly
How am I do doing so far with obvious facts?
Originally posted by DowardWe are talking about creation, your talking about what the Big Bang? If God
How far away is the closest sun? How long does it take for light to get here from that sun? Now think about some of the furthest stars. Some of what we see as stars are in actuality galaxies. We know they are galaxies because of the amazing pictures we have taken of them with the hubble telescope etc...If that galaxy is 100 million light years away then it st ...[text shortened]... uld not have occurred a mere 6-12,000 years ago.
How am I do doing so far with obvious facts?
created everything than I'll go with what was written over what someone thinks
may have happen in a theory that has only been around for how long? Seriously,
you are more than welcome to call parts of the Bible anything you want, you can
pick and choose those parts you like, those parts you think people will make fun of
you over if you say you believe in them, whatever I don't care. Scriptues says
God made those lights to shine on the earth, from your point of view God made
the stars and billions of years later we could see them. I believe he made them
and we saw them as soon as He wanted us to, which to me would mean right away.
Kelly
Gen 1:14-19
14 God said, "I command lights to appear in the sky and to separate day from night and to show the time for seasons, special days, and years. 15I command them to shine on the earth." And that's what happened. 16God made two powerful lights, the brighter one to rule the day and the other to rule the night. He also made the stars. 17Then God put these lights in the sky to shine on the earth, 18to rule day and night, and to separate light from darkness. God looked at what he had done, and it was good. 19Evening came and then morning--that was the fourth day.
Originally posted by DowardSo when God created the sun, moon, and stars so that they could shine upon the
How far away is the closest sun? How long does it take for light to get here from that sun? Now think about some of the furthest stars. Some of what we see as stars are in actuality galaxies. We know they are galaxies because of the amazing pictures we have taken of them with the hubble telescope etc...If that galaxy is 100 million light years away then it st ...[text shortened]... uld not have occurred a mere 6-12,000 years ago.
How am I do doing so far with obvious facts?
earth it took billions of years for that to occur? He is creating everything including
the light shining on the earth why would it have to take billions of years? I can
understand it taking billions of years for light to leave a star billions of light years
away to get here, but you are suggesting when God created the stars as if they
were like flash lights that once created he turned them on so the light could get
here in a billion or so years afterwards, but I believe when He created them he did
so with the light not only on but already hitting the earth as He said.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayI know we have discussed this before, but I never got a satisfactory answer from you.
.....when He created them he did
so with the light not only on but already hitting the earth as He said.
Kelly
Scenario A: Astronomers view
1. A star is z light years away and is in position x when light leaves it.
2. When light reaches us, z years later, the star is now in position y, but we observe it in position x.
3. What we are seeing is the star as it existed when light left it z years ago.
Scenario B: Creation as you describe it.
1. Light reaches us appearing to come from a star z light years away at position x.
2. When the light reaches us the star is now in position y, but we observe it in position x.
3. What we are seeing is a star in position x that never ever was really in position x. We are seeing something that never existed. We are seeing a fake history.
4. If the star goes supernova less than z years from creation (this has happened, and been observed many times), then the star we observed before the supernova never existed and never will exist. We observed a fake star + supernova. God wanted us to think there was a start there even though there never really was one.
Originally posted by KellyJayI agree. And God did not do it with a "Big Bang" either.
So when God created the sun, moon, and stars so that they could shine upon the
earth it took billions of years for that to occur? He is creating everything including
the light shining on the earth why would it have to take billions of years? I can
understand it taking billions of years for light to leave a star billions of light years
away to get here, ...[text shortened]... ated them he did
so with the light not only on but already hitting the earth as He said.
Kelly
I already posted on some thread that when God created
trees, animals, humans, etc., He created them fully matured
capable of reproducing. By using the way things are today,
it is impossible to tell how old anything over a few thousand
years is. By any measure of time we use today would
result in wrong measurements. These guesses they give
don't include the factor of how they were formed, because
they don't know. How can we be sure the same conditions
we have today have always existed? The answer is we can't
for those dummys out there in never never land.
Originally posted by twhiteheadWe of course can get a good idea of how far away it is that way
I know we have discussed this before, but I never got a satisfactory answer from you.
Scenario A: Astronomers view
1. A star is z light years away and is in position x when light leaves it.
2. When light reaches us, z years later, the star is now in position y, but we observe it in position x.
3. What we are seeing is the star as it existed when light ...[text shortened]... upernova. God wanted us to think there was a start there even though there never really was one.
today. But we don't have enough information to tell how old it is.
Things may appear older than the are especially if God made them.
There had to be a point in time when the stars did not exists.
Scientist do not know how they came about. All they can do is
guess based on what information they know. They assume to
much in there effort to explain it all. We don't know if the laws
we have discovered have always been in place or not. But
the Scientist in their calculations and estimates assume to much.
And to assume makes an "ass" out of "u" and "me".
Originally posted by RJHindslolz - priceless!
We of course can get a good idea of how far away it is that way
today. But we don't have enough information to tell how old it is.
Things may appear older than the are especially if God made them.
There had to be a point in time when the stars did not exists.
Scientist do not know how they came about. All they can do is
guess based on what information ...[text shortened]... lations and estimates assume to much.
And to assume makes an "ass" out of "u" and "me".
1 edit
Originally posted by avalanchethecatare you denying that energy can be changed in to mass, do not the scriptures describe
lolz - priceless!
God as being abundant in dynamic energy?
(Isaiah 40:26) “Raise your eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is
the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls
even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in
power, not one of them is missing.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhat about you Rob, did humans coexist with dinosaurs?
are you denying that energy can be changed in to mass, do not the scriptures describe
God as being abundant in dynamic energy?
(Isaiah 40:26) “Raise your eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is
the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls
even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in
power, not one of them is missing.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhat is it with people answering questions with a question? See, even i'm doing it!!!
no, is it not true that dinosaurs died out millions of years ago for reasons that are not fully explained?
Yes, that is the scientific consensus. Dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago, i thought everyone knew that. But alas it appears there are some of your Christian brothers on these forums who think humans coexisted with dinosaurs.
I can chalk you down in my mental diary as not one of them.
Originally posted by RJHindsBut we don't have enough information to tell how old it is.
We of course can get a good idea of how far away it is that way
today. But we don't have enough information to tell how old it is.
Things may appear older than the are especially if God made them.
There had to be a point in time when the stars did not exists.
Scientist do not know how they came about. All they can do is
guess based on what information ...[text shortened]... lations and estimates assume to much.
And to assume makes an "ass" out of "u" and "me".
Yes we do.
Things may appear older than the are especially if God made them.
So God's deliberately decieving us now. A prankster God running around.
There had to be a point in time when the stars did not exists.
This is correct.
Scientist do not know how they came about
This is incorrect. Go read a science book, you'd me amazed at what we can do. We can actually look into the cosmos and watch stars being formed millions of years ago.
All they can do is guess based on what information they know.
Again, it's not a 'guess'. An analogy if you will -
You're standing outside a room, you hear a scream. You open the door to find a man holding a knife covered in blood standing over a woman lying on the floor with a stab wound to the chest. Did you see him stab her? No, but by examining the evidence you can be pretty sure he did. Would you call that a 'guess'?
They assume to much in there effort to explain it all.
Really, could you elaborate on what 'they' assume.
Originally posted by KellyJayThere are countless dating techniques, none of them, i'll repeat that, none of them indicate that the earth and all life on it is less that 10,000yrs old. It is you who is making the assumptions based on a story some Bronze Age desert tribesman wrote down 3,000yrs ago.
We have some built in blinders when it comes to the distant past, we can look at
what we see and we can come up with what we think it means. This means as far
as the distant past is concern we are left with our imaginations more than we care
to admit. When looking at rates for example, unless we can actually monitor them
to the point where we can confir ...[text shortened]... e
are dealing with assumptions, and assumptions are not always a reflection of
reality.
Kelly
Could you explain to to me the cognitive processes you have gone through to reach the conclusion that the earth and everything on it is less than 10,000yrs old?!
Originally posted by robbie carrobieNo, of course not - e=mc^2 and all I'm happy to consider matter and energy to be interchangeable. I was laughing at the idea of someone who has made the assumption that everything in the bible is true questioning the assumptions made by modern physics. In fact, I'm laughing again now.
are you denying that energy can be changed in to mass, do not the scriptures describe
God as being abundant in dynamic energy?
(Isaiah 40:26) “Raise your eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is
the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls
even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in
power, not one of them is missing.