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Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels,
and have not charity,
I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
And though I have the gift of prophecy,
and understand all mysteries,
and all knowledge;
and though I have all faith,
so that I could remove mountains,
and have not charity,
I am nothing.
(1 Corinthians 13:1-2 KJV)
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Oh poor you, poor sonship,
Oh, I didn't say that Christians are poor.
We're quite rich and need to realize it.
I just meant we will appear foolish to the world often.
A servant is not above his master.
KJ21 “The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
ASV A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his lord.
AMP “A disciple is not above his teacher, nor is a bond-servant above his master. (Matt.10:24)
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Matthew%2010:24
It goes on to say that if they called Jesus derogatory names don't be surprised if the believers are treated like this.
poor persecuted forum dweller, poor truth holder.
You specialize in red herrings, strawmen, and minor issues as deflections.
Grow up, behave like a believer and stop bleating like a JW.
The word said it, not me.
English Standard Version
Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, (2 Tim. 3:12)
I'm not bleating. I'm debunking ... you.
Originally posted by @sonship“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:3).
Oh, I didn't say that Christians are poor.
We're quite rich and need to realize it.
Yes, I know this refers to being 'humble,' but a warning nonetheless about being self-satisfied or proud.
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Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeThankyou for the reminder.
“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:3).
Yes, I know this refers to being 'humble,' but a warning nonetheless about being self-satisfied or proud.
By the way, look up the parallel recording of that teaching in Luke. There Luke 6:20 just records that He said "Blessed are you poor ..." period.
Just thought you'd be interested.
Luke 6:20
New American Standard Bible
And turning His gaze toward His disciples, He began to say, "Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.
King James Bible
And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeGood stuff....
'Trinitarians often try to "make hay" out of unclear translations, translators' indistinct use of punctuation marks, and ignoring standard Hebrew discourse structures. In fact, this is the standard practice for Trinitarian arguments. Every Trinitarian "proof text" must ignore explicit statements of Scripture and appeal to obscure language or grammat ...[text shortened]... entatives, not because He literally will live on earth (1Ki 8:27; 2Ch 2:6).'
@BibleResearch
Originally posted by @sonshipOkay sonship. let's run with that. Matthew records Jesus as saying, “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven” and Luke simply, "Blessed are you poor ..." (Period).
Thankyou for the reminder.
By the way, look up the parallel recording of that teaching in [b]Luke. There Luke 6:20 just records that He said "Blessed are you poor ..." period.
Just thought you'd be interested.
Luke 6:20New American Standard Bible[/b]
And turning His gaze toward His disciples, He began t ...[text shortened]... s eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
Now, unless you are accusing Matthew of 'making stuff up' (which I'm sure you're not) we can only conclude that Matthew recalled more than Luke, right? Luke doesn't correct Matthew, but rather Matthew expands on Luke. Yes?
Originally posted by @sonshipOn that note, explain Trinitarianism again?!
Are you a polytheist galveston?
Yes or No?
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Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeI never explained "Trinitarianism" on this thread.
On that note, explain Trinitarianism again?!
So I needn't explain it "again."
I explained why a reasonable interpretation of Zechariah 2:8-11 shows that Jehovah God sent Jehovah God.
That is all.
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Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Now, unless you are accusing Matthew of 'making stuff up' (which I'm sure you're not) we can only conclude that Matthew recalled more than Luke, right? Luke doesn't correct Matthew, but rather Matthew expands on Luke. Yes?
No, I do not handle most of the descrepancies in the Gospels like this - "Somebody must be wrong."
I give each evangelist the freedom to express his angle of Christ's teaching with his particular emphasis.
The teaching as Matthew presents it was given by Jesus on a mountain. His disciples had to come away from the crowd and go UP higher to hear Him.
Luke is different. It says that He was speaking on a level place.
On a mountain top or on a level place?
I think Matthew wants to portray that this was something a little HIGHER that the run of the mill followers might not get. But the serious disciples came up "higher" to hear Jesus on the kingdom of the heavens.
Luke, perhaps, on the other hand, wants to express that the door of Christ's salvation is wide open for all. So Luke highlights that the message was given on a level ground.
I'll take both.
They could both be true yet different angles of the matter.
Blessed are the poor in spirit.
Blessed are the poor.
I'll take both, allowing the delegated deputy authorities of Jesus to tell their account as they are led by the Holy Spirit to tell it.
Originally posted by @sonshipIf Matthew and Luke were describing the same factual event then Jesus either said 'Blessed are the poor in spirit' or 'Blessed are the poor.' (Period).Now, unless you are accusing Matthew of 'making stuff up' (which I'm sure you're not) we can only conclude that Matthew recalled more than Luke, right? Luke doesn't correct Matthew, but rather Matthew expands on Luke. Yes?
No, I do not handle most of the descrepancies in the Gospels like this - "Somebody must be wrong."
I give each e ...[text shortened]... deputy authorities of Jesus to tell their account as they are led by the Holy Spirit to tell it.
Now, you can quibble all you want about low plain or high plain, but the issue here is the 'spoken words' of Jesus.' He either said it, or he didn't say it. Either His words are His own, or they're not. - It has nothing to do with 'different angles of the matter.' If the accounts are faithful than it stands to reason that Matthew simply gives more information and Luke a condensed version. (And Luke's version of course not from his own recollections but from the recollections of others).
"Blessed are the poor (Luke stops recording) in spirit." (Matthew finishes).
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeDid it occur to you that Jesus may have said both at different times?
If Matthew and Luke were describing the same factual event then Jesus either said 'Blessed are the poor in spirit' or 'Blessed are the poor.' (Period).
Now, you can quibble all you want about low plain or high plain, but the issue here is the 'spoken words' of Jesus.' He either said it, or he didn't say it. Either His words are His own, or they ...[text shortened]... ions of others).
"Blessed are the poor (Luke stops recording) in spirit." (Matthew finishes).
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Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeDid this occur to me?
If Matthew and Luke were describing the same factual event then Jesus either said 'Blessed are the poor in spirit' or 'Blessed are the poor.' (Period).
Now, you can quibble all you want about low plain or high plain, but the issue here is the 'spoken words' of Jesus.' He either said it, or he didn't say it. Either His words are His own, or they ...[text shortened]... ions of others).
"Blessed are the poor (Luke stops recording) in spirit." (Matthew finishes).
Yes, for years now.
That is a reasonable way for one to consider it.
I also have a Harmony of the Gospels, by which each line can be compared to its parallels across different gospels.
I don't let these exercises distract me overly from obtaining the spiritual nourishment from every word though.
Originally posted by @sonshipMy query was to Ghost. That Matthew and Luke recorded sermons spoken at different times seems like a logical conclusion, especially since both statements “Blessed are the poor” and “Blessed are the poor in spirit” are backed up by other Scriptures.
Did this occur to me?
Yes, for years now.
That is a reasonable way for one to consider it.
I also have a Harmony of the Gospels, by which each line can be compared to its parallels across different gospels.
I don't let these exercises distract me overly from obtaining the spiritual nourishment from every word though.