12 Jan 11
1 edit
Originally posted by josephwYou cannot prove God exists - simple as that.
"It isn't far fetched to say that the only way to know God is by some kind of supernatural spiritual revelation; but you're trying to load the discussion in your favour."
[b]No I'm not. I'm simply trying to break it down to it's least common denominator. I'm trying to find a way to "prove" what I believe. And I'm trying to do it openly and honestly. Don't intent on trivializing and finding every excuse to deny the existence of.[/b]
You're not breaking it down to its least common denominator, you're neglecting the things that work against you and attempting to pose your questions as a lawyer would in court. You lace them with many unwarranted assumptions, and withhold too many variables or options.
I'm nit-picky because your questions are as unsound as your assertions.
Do you still beat your wife? yes or no please!
12 Jan 11
Originally posted by Agergi said that it is possible our race was created by an alien race and i have admitted that is only speculation. what i have said time and time again is that what i know to be FACT, is that we are being observed by an alien race and have been. that is not an unjustified claim because there is evidence all around the world to support it. evolution is not fact, gravity is not fact, and neither is the big bang. they are all theories because they have evidence to support them but not proof beyond 100% of a doubt. therefore, the theory of an alien race visiting our planet is just as good a theory as the theory of gravity because you can find evidence all around the world that we have been visited by aliens since the beginning of written history.
[b]why is it that science claims to "prove" evolution to be true but it can only speculate about the origin? they dont know how life started; they just speculate that it was spontaneous. they say without any proof at all that under the correct conditions that support life, life can just spring up out of nowhere. why is it that this is accepted? why cant i say ...[text shortened]... and consistent with natural data. Yours, though not impossible, is just a claim.
12 Jan 11
3 edits
Originally posted by EcstremeVenomYeah...ok! 😕
i said that it is possible our race was created by an alien race and i have admitted that is only speculation. what i have said time and time again is that what i know to be FACT, is that we are being observed by an alien race and have been. that is not an unjustified claim because there is evidence all around the world to support it. evolution is not ...[text shortened]... all around the world that we have been visited by aliens since the beginning of written history.
Likewise my theory about tooth fairies is just as good as your theory about aliens. Why? Because of evidence thats why*!
*On more than one occasion as a young boy did I stash a fallen tooth under my pillow to find, in the morning, a shiny fifty pence piece
(UK currency...lots of money for a four year old back in 1984)
(courtesy of the tooth fairy) in it's place. By your reasoning, this sort of evidence is just as good as your evidence for aliens.
13 Jan 11
Originally posted by Agerg"You cannot prove God exists - simple as that."
You cannot prove God exists - simple as that.
You're not breaking it down to its least common denominator, you're neglecting the things that work against you and attempting to pose your questions as a lawyer would in court. You lace them with many unwarranted assumptions, and withhold too many variables or options.
I'm nit-picky because your questions are as unsound as your assertions.
Do you still beat your wife? yes or no please!
It's not that simple. What I'm really trying to do is get you to see that God exists as evidenced by creation. So in reality I don't have to prove it at all.
"You're not breaking it down to its least common denominator, you're neglecting the things that work against you and attempting to pose your questions as a lawyer would in court. You lace them with many unwarranted assumptions, and withhold too many variables or options."
I'll own that. I'm doing the best I can, but you're not helping. I see you doing the same sort of things too.
"I'm nit-picky because your questions are as unsound as your assertions."
Yes you are, but I think you're failing to see how I'm building the case. For example; Your first statement above. If you are so sure the the existence of God can't be proven, then it is obvious that you neither care to know if there be a Creator/God, and/or you really don't want to know. Therefore no argument that might otherwise persuade you to take a closer look at the possibility that you may be wrong will ever work.
"Do you still beat your wife?"
Regularly! 🙂
13 Jan 11
3 edits
Originally posted by josephwIt's not that simple. What I'm really trying to do is get you to see that God exists as evidenced by creation. So in reality I don't have to prove it at all.
"You cannot prove God exists - simple as that."
It's not that simple. What I'm really trying to do is get you to see that God exists as evidenced by creation. So in reality I don't have to prove it at all.
"You're not breaking it down to its least common denominator, you're neglecting the things that work against you and attempting to pose ll ever work.
[b]"Do you still beat your wife?"
Regularly! 🙂[/b]
Well it was you who first mentioned the notion of "proof", I'm just hitting the ball. That said however, if you want to go round saying you know your god exists then the onus really is upon you to prove it
I'll own that. I'm doing the best I can, but you're not helping. I see you doing the same sort of things too.
I have a certain disdain for such tactics and in real life I make little effort to hide my contempt for sales men
or women
and their strategies when the opportunity presents. Perhaps you'd like to tell me where I do such things myself and I'll point out if I was using hyperbole for sarcastic effect.as I often do
I certainly don't pose as many questions as you do - indeed, our discussions tend to go along the line of: you ask questions loaded with bias, whilst I respond to all your points, highlighting which bits I disagree with or cannot answer in the way you'd like, you then ignore most of my response and carry on with the same line of questioning.
Do you actually work in sales by any chance???
Yes you are, but I think you're failing to see how I'm building the case. For example; Your first statement above. If you are so sure the the existence of God can't be proven, then it is obvious that you neither care to know if there be a Creator/God, and/or you really don't want to know. Therefore no argument that might otherwise persuade you to take a closer look at the possibility that you may be wrong will ever work.
Please tell me you were joking here, and that you haven't wasted so much of your time labouring under the misapprehension that I have any desire to *find * your god. 😲
I'm here for the discussion - thats all. What's more, I've made it patently obvious to you in other threads why I have no desire or grounds for choosing any particular (your!) god out of many given they are all just as likely as each other.
13 Jan 11
Originally posted by Agergi cant have a serious conversation with an idiot. the grand canyon is said to have been created by erosion because of the "evidence" that is shown. although i dont argue against this theory, it is in the same boat as the theory that aliens are visiting our planet. why cant you see that no theory in science is fact? the big bang theory and evolution are no more proven fact than the existence of aliens. there is very little that we can say with 100% certainty because we can only assume something to be true with the evidence provided. its the same concept.
Yeah...ok! 😕
Likewise my theory about tooth fairies is just as good as your theory about aliens. Why? Because of evidence thats why*!
*On more than one occasion as a young boy did I stash a fallen tooth under my pillow to find, in the morning, a shiny fifty pence piece[hidden](UK currency...lots of money for a four year old back in 1984)[/hidde ...[text shortened]... 's place. By your reasoning, this sort of evidence is just as good as your evidence for aliens.
13 Jan 11
Originally posted by EcstremeVenomThe point I was making, which you evidently missed, was that some "theories" have more clout than others; i.e. the ones that after many trials and struggles have earned that title (as opposed to musings or speculation).
i cant have a serious conversation with an idiot. the grand canyon is said to have been created by erosion because of the "evidence" that is shown. although i dont argue against this theory, it is in the same boat as the theory that aliens are visiting our planet. why cant you see that no theory in science is fact? the big bang theory and evolution are ...[text shortened]... ause we can only assume something to be true with the evidence provided. its the same concept.
I wasn't making any points along the line - gravity is proven fact, etc...
13 Jan 11
Originally posted by Agergthe majority is not always right. there is evidence right in our faces all around the world; people are just too afraid to listen to it because they dont want to be ridiculed by bigots like you. how can you deny cave drawings and sculptures of alens, astronauts and rocket ships and things like that? how can you say that a crop circle can be faked from the ground with the accuracy and precision in which it is made?
The point I was making, which you evidently missed, was that some "theories" have more clout than others; i.e. the ones that after many trials and struggles have earned that title (as opposed to musings or speculation).
I wasn't making any points along the line - gravity is proven fact, etc...
13 Jan 11
6 edits
Originally posted by EcstremeVenomMy argument made no reference to majority opinion. You appear to be getting angry...why?
the majority is not always right. there is evidence right in our faces all around the world; people are just too afraid to listen to it because they dont want to be ridiculed by bigots like you. how can you deny cave drawings and sculptures of alens, astronauts and rocket ships and things like that? how can you say that a crop circle can be faked from the ground with the accuracy and precision in which it is made?
As for crop circles...did you know that with just a humble rope and a tall "stick" (to put in the ground) you can describe a near perfect circle? also it's probably not too difficult to describe a spiral. Infact with good planning, and a firm understanding of geometry, I see no reason why a party of like-minded people couldn't go out and create some epic crop circles for us all to marvel at.
13 Jan 11
Originally posted by Agergthe pranksters were two 60 year old men and they definitely were not artists. im mad because you are making fun of something i truly believe even though there is evidence in support of it.
My argument made no reference to majority opinion. You appear to be getting angry...why?
As for crop circles...did you know that with just a humble rope and a tall "stick" (to put in the ground) you can describe a near perfect circle? also it's probably not too difficult to describe a spiral. Infact with good planning, and a firm understanding of geometry, ...[text shortened]... ike-minded people couldn't go out and create some epic crop circles for us all to marvel at.
13 Jan 11
4 edits
Originally posted by EcstremeVenomthe pranksters were two 60 year old men and they definitely were not artists.
the pranksters were two 60 year old men and they definitely were not artists. im mad because you are making fun of something i truly believe even though there is evidence in support of it.
eh? 😕
I don't believe I have made fun at what you believe; I may have made fun at one of your flimsy arguments to support it - that being all theories are equally valid; but that's not the same as making fun of your beliefs. Indeed, where did I ever say something that could be construed as
You believe in alien crop circles!? Bwahaha!!! Next you'll be telling me you believe in astrology or tea leaf reading!
?
In fact our entire discussion started from one question, stated many times by myself, that you haven't answered: If we must have been created by aliens, who *must have* created those, and so on...? It was not my intention to take the p!ss as you seem to infer.
13 Jan 11
Originally posted by Agergyou compared my belief in aliens with the belief in the tooth fairy. that is very similar to the usual way atheists poke fun at theists by saying something smart such as, "i suppose you believe in santa clause too!"
[b]the pranksters were two 60 year old men and they definitely were not artists.
eh? 😕
I don't believe I have made fun at what you believe; I may have made fun at one of your flimsy arguments to support it - that being all theories are equally valid; but that's not the same as making fun of your beliefs. Indeed, where did I ever say something tha ...[text shortened]... ? Bwahaha!!! Next you'll be telling me you believe in astrology or tea leaf reading![/i]
?[/b]
13 Jan 11
1 edit
Originally posted by EcstremeVenomNo, I compared your statement all theories are equally valid if they have "evidence" to the statement my evidence for a tooth fairy is just as good as your evidence for aliens. There is a difference - and a reason why I said it! That reason being it is not true all theories are equally valid.
you compared my belief in aliens with the belief in the tooth fairy. that is very similar to the usual way atheists poke fun at theists by saying something smart such as, "i suppose you believe in santa clause too!"
13 Jan 11
Originally posted by Agergok well that makes sense lol. it appeared that you were just mocking me but i see your point and that was a pretty good way to get it across
No, I compared your statement all theories are equally valid if they have "evidence" to the statement my evidence for a tooth fairy is just as good as your evidence for aliens. There is a difference - and a reason why I said it! That reason being it is not true all theories are equally valid.
13 Jan 11
1 edit
Originally posted by Agerg😉
My argument made no reference to majority opinion. You appear to be getting angry...why?
As for crop circles...did you know that with just a humble rope and a tall "stick" (to put in the ground) you can describe a near perfect circle? also it's probably not too difficult to describe a spiral. Infact with good planning, and a firm understanding of geometry, ...[text shortened]... ike-minded people couldn't go out and create some epic crop circles for us all to marvel at.
Edit: and