Gods Kingdom

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Conciseness test - 7 page downs (FAIL 😞) to read this:

Edit: heh - Jesus just got his post shortened by Russ!

He said:

3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those w ...[text shortened]...

7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you wi...

no one should have to scroll more than a monitors worth! Jesus realised this, that is why he made his teachings simple and concise.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
be concise and ill read your posts,

now while i realise that no discipline is pleasant at present, in the long run, it yields righteousness.

Short posts have their place. Too often the reader will simply proceed to point out that this, that, or the other was not considered. It is wrong because this, that, or the other was overlooked.

I like to preemptively deal with some of that.

Originally posted by sonship
Short posts have their place. Too often the reader will simply proceed to point out that this, that, or the other was not considered. It is wrong because this, that, or the other was overlooked.

I like to preemptively deal with some of that.

The JWs do not like you to preempt their talking points. So stop it!

The Instructor

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no one should have to scroll more than a monitors worth! Jesus realised this, that is why he made his teachings simple and concise.

Blessed are the simple of prose, for they shall receive more Google hits? 😉

I suppose Jesus could have received a divine revelation of the future and realized that his sermons should be optimized for smartphones.

no one should have to scroll more than a monitors worth! Jesus realised this, that is why he made his teachings simple and concise.

The Bereans had a noble attitude to eagerly search the Scriptures carefully to see if the things Paul was preaching were true (Acts 17:12).

You don't display that. You want to make assertions and are not interested in real problems with them from Scripture. Efficiency is mainly the excuse you use to conceal this.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Blessed are the simple of prose, for they shall receive more Google hits? 😉

I suppose Jesus could have received a divine revelation of the future and realized that his sermons should be optimized for smartphones.

LOL, indeed, you would think that with the mystical dispersion of Holy spirit this would percolate into the minds and hearts of his worshippers.

Originally posted by sonship

no one should have to scroll more than a monitors worth! Jesus realised this, that is why he made his teachings simple and concise.

The Bereans had a noble attitude to eagerly search the Scriptures carefully to see if the things Paul was preaching were true [b](Acts 17:12).

You don't display that. You want to make assertions and ...[text shortened]... eal problems with them from Scripture. Efficiency is mainly the excuse you use to conceal this.[/b]

I dont have any problems with scripture, i outlined the heavenly kingdom arrangement in a single monitors worth of text, you replied with reams of text and irrelevancies, terming my text a lie on the basis of a straw man argument that you made up. I simply do not have the time nor the patience to reply to every single fabrication or insult.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I dont have any problems with scripture, i outlined the heavenly kingdom arrangement in a single monitors worth of text, you replied with reams of text and irrelevancies, terming my text a lie on the basis of a straw man argument that you made up. I simply do not have the time nor the patience to reply to every single fabrication or insult.

I don't have any problems with scripture

To being verbose, I agree that I have that weakness.

But you have no problem with scripture ? No problem at all ?
I have no time either for such denial.

And you overplay the "blame pagan enfluence" card too.
You clearly do not recognize that the one heavily enfluenced by extra-biblical pagan concepts is yourself.

Originally posted by sonship

I don't have any problems with scripture

To being verbose, I agree that I have that weakness.

But you have no problem with scripture ? No problem at all ?
I have no time either for such denial.

And you overplay the "blame pagan enfluence" card too.
You clearly do not recognize that the one heavily enfluenced by extra-biblical pagan concepts is yourself.

for example.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
for example.

For example ?

For example responding this way in to my reference to John 8:58.

been through it a zillion times. 'I am' is not even a proper translation of the Hebrew and assigning special significance to the personal pronoun and the verb 'to be', in the case of Jesus is just about as ludicrous as you crazies get. The passage is simply a reference to Christ's pre human existence, if you examined the Greek idiomatic construct you would know this but you would rather cling to your neo platonic paganism instead. You have made the word of God invalid because of your traditions and the error is your own.

I would write more but you like chat rather than substantial discussion when someone disagrees with you I think.

Ie. "If you disagree with me, you can only chat short lines to deal with it."

Chat is easier to slip around.

What Robbie seems to be saying above is that it is alright to refer to Christ's pre-existence before Abraham as long as it is not that same pre-existence stated, significantly, by God Himself in Exodus.

If you take that quite logical interpretation ( He was repeating Exodus 3:14) you are neo-Platonian in your understanding somehow. Robbie's polytheism reasons this way because he has two Gods.

One is the I am primary who spoke in Exodus to Moses.
The other is the secondary I am who is the other God who was with God almighty.

Terribly twisted reasoning.

I suppose he then reasons that the next verse "So they picked up stones to throw at Him ..." was because Jesus had the audacity to proclaim Himself the secondary God in the Watchtower polytheistic pantheon.

I differ. I think they picked up stones to execute Him for blasphemy on the spot not because of any abuse of Neo-Platonian Greek philosophy but because He was claiming for Himself what God did in Exodus 3:13,14.

Exodus 3:13,14 - Then Moses said to God, If I come to the children of Israel and say to them, The God of your fathers has sent me to you, and they say to me, What is His name ? what shall I say to them ?

And God said to Moses, I AM WHO I AM. And He said, Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to you. (RcV my coloring)

been through it a zillion times. 'I am' is not even a proper translation of the Hebrew and assigning special significance to the personal pronoun and the verb 'to be', in the case of Jesus is just about as ludicrous as you crazies get

The footnote of the Recovery Version in Exodus 3:14:

Or, I will be who I will be; or, I will become who I will become. The divine title I AM denotes that God is the One who is self-existing and ever-existing and who depends on nothing apart from Himself (cf. John 8:24,28,58 ...). As the O A,, He is the all-inclusive One, the reality of every positive thing and of whatever His called and sent ones need.

Now the power of the utterance of Jesus I Am is not only seen in John 5:58. It is recorded by John also in connection with the mob crowd falling backwards when they went to seize Him for execution:

"Jesus therefore, knowing all the things that were coming upon Him, went forth and said to them, Whom do you seek?

They answered Him, Jesus the Nazarene. He said to them, I am. ... When therefore He said to them, I am, they drew back and fell to the ground." (John 18:4-6)

So you see the evangelist John underscores that when Jesus uttered "I am" the power of His confession caused them to be practically blown back off their feet!

John is therefore reiterating to the reader that Christ was indeed God incarnate - the "I AM that I AM" in human form about to turn Himself over to man to be crucified.

Originally posted by sonship

been through it a zillion times. 'I am' is not even a proper translation of the Hebrew and assigning special significance to the personal pronoun and the verb 'to be', in the case of Jesus is just about as ludicrous as you crazies get

The footnote of the Recovery Version in Exodus 3:14:

[quote] Or, I will be who I will be; or, I wi ...[text shortened]... ]"I AM that I AM" in human form about to turn Himself over to man to be crucified.[/b]

before Abraham was, I am, John 8:58

let us take at look at this and ask you a brief question.

why have you put the subject after the predicate which is not the normal word order in English sentences and why are you mixing a present tense verb and a past tense verb in completely ungrammatical fashion?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
It appears to me that the vast majority of those who profess to be Christians are unaware of what the Kingdom is, yet it is the central tenet of Christ's teaching. Notice how this is described in the book of Isaiah, King James version.

For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the [b]government will be upon His shoulder.
And ...[text shortened]... give your allegiance, the self serving governments of the system, or the Kingdom of the Christ?[/b]

Who is your spiritual father, Jesus or Jehovah?

I asked is at the start of the thread but you declined to answer.

Originally posted by divegeester
Who is your spiritual father, Jesus or Jehovah?

I asked is at the start of the thread but you declined to answer.

yawn

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
before Abraham was, I am, John 8:58

let us take at look at this and ask you a brief question.

why have you put the subject after the predicate which is not the normal word order in English sentences and why are you mixing a present tense verb and a past tense verb in completely ungrammatical fashion?

I did not do the translation from Greek to English.
At this time I will not delve into the grammatical issue you raise without looking into it from several professional translator's points of view.

However, the Recovery Version that I quoted seems not to be alone that its editorial staff considers the translation good.

New International Version (©2011)
"Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

New Living Translation (©2007)
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am!"

English Standard Version (©2001)
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
Jesus said to them, "I assure you: Before Abraham was, I am."

International Standard Version (©2012)
Jesus told them, "Truly, I tell all of you emphatically, before there was an Abraham, I AM!"

NET Bible (©2006)
Jesus said to them, "I tell you the solemn truth, before Abraham came into existence, I am!"

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Yeshua said to them: “Timeless truth I speak to you: Before Abraham would exist, I AM THE LIVING GOD.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Jesus told them, "I can guarantee this truth: Before Abraham was ever born, I am."

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

American King James Version
Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham was, I am.

American Standard Version
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am.

Darby Bible Translation
Jesus said to them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

English Revised Version
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Webster's Bible Translation
Jesus said to them, Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Weymouth New Testament
"In most solemn truth," answered Jesus, "I tell you that before Abraham came into existence, I am."

World English Bible
Jesus said to them, "Most certainly, I tell you, before Abraham came into existence, I AM."

Young's Literal Translation
Jesus said to them, 'Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham's coming -- I am;'

And an entirely separate scholarship from that behind the Recovery Version which has verse 58 as " ... before Abraham came into being, I AM" interestingly has this note:

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
58. Before Abraham was, I am—The words rendered "was" and "am" are quite different. The one clause means, "Abraham was brought into being"; the other, "I exist." The statement therefore is not that Christ came into existence before Abraham did (as Arians affirm is the meaning), but that He never came into being at all, but existed before Abraham had a being; in other words, existed before creation, or eternally (as Joh 1:1). In that sense the Jews plainly understood Him, since "then took they up stones to cast at Him," just as they had before done when they saw that He made Himself equal with God (Joh 5:18).