1. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
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    06 Aug '10 13:09
    Grace is a foreign language...



    Grace is a foreign language from day one out of the chute. It's simplicity underwhelms us. It's turnkey completeness offends us. We insist on getting out of the cabin to help push the jet. Earning the gift appeals to us. We crave a share of the credit.



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  2. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    06 Aug '10 13:12
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]Grace is a foreign language...



    Grace is a foreign language from day one out of the chute. It's simplicity underwhelms us. It's turnkey completeness offends us. We insist on getting out of the cabin to help push the jet. Earning the gift appeals to us. We crave a share of the credit.



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    All I know about "grace" is that we are moving out of the law of karma and into the law of grace.
  3. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    06 Aug '10 14:03
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]Grace is a foreign language...



    Grace is a foreign language from day one out of the chute. It's simplicity underwhelms us. It's turnkey completeness offends us. We insist on getting out of the cabin to help push the jet. Earning the gift appeals to us. We crave a share of the credit.



    ......................................................................[/b]
    It's clear the first Christians expected the kingdom to come within their lifetime. 2,000 years later you're still waiting. Why do you think that is? Do you think you'll still be waiting in another 2,000 years? or 20,000 years? You will be if you're relying on grace.
  4. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    06 Aug '10 14:31
    Originally posted by rwingett
    It's clear the first Christians expected the kingdom to come within their lifetime. 2,000 years later you're still waiting. Why do you think that is? Do you think you'll still be waiting in another 2,000 years? or 20,000 years? You will be if you're relying on grace.
    Timing's in His capable hands. I'm good with that.
  5. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    06 Aug '10 14:34
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Timing's in His capable hands. I'm good with that.
    Build it and He will come.
  6. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    06 Aug '10 15:39
    Originally posted by rwingett

    Build it and He will come.
    His divine timeline will remain steady on course/play out (rapture, tribulation, second advent, millenial reign, great white

    throne judgement, destruction of planet earth, etc) when He's good and ready, not until.... whether we're ready or not.



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  7. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    06 Aug '10 16:21
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    His divine timeline will remain steady on course/play out (rapture, tribulation, second advent, millenial reign, great white

    throne judgement, destruction of planet earth, etc) when He's good and ready, not until.... whether we're ready or not.



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    What a tired and shopworn mythology you tenaciously cling to. One can only wonder in amazement at how many millenia you're willing to continue clinging to it before you realize that no one is going to drop the kingdom into your lap from on high while you passively do nothing.

    The kingdom is forever within our grasp. The reason it has never come is because we have not done what is necessary to actualize it. Jesus gave us the blueprint. But it requires much assembly on our part. When we are ready to quit perpetuating this world of greed and avarice and instead build a new world of universal love and compassion, then behold, the kingdom will have come. Then the spirit of god (either literally or metaphorically) will enter into that kingdom and give it his blessing.

    Make no mistake, the kingdom will not be of this world (a society of greed and avarice), but it will be on this planet. And it will require a considerable amount of work on our part.
  8. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    06 Aug '10 17:391 edit
    Originally posted by rwingett

    What a tired and shopworn mythology you tenaciously cling to. One can only wonder in amazement at how many millenia you're willing to continue clinging to it before you realize that no one is going to drop the kingdom into your lap from on high while you passively do nothing.

    The kingdom is forever within our grasp. The reason it has never come is bec ...[text shortened]... , but it will be on this planet. And it will require a considerable amount of work on our part.
    "Grace is a foreign language from day one out of the chute. It's simplicity underwhelms us. It's turnkey completeness offends us.

    We insist on getting out of the cabin to help push the jet. Earning the gift appeals to us. We crave a share of the credit."



    ~Least we agree with the thread's initial post. Suppose that's a start.


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  9. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    06 Aug '10 19:06
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    "Grace is a foreign language from day one out of the chute. It's simplicity underwhelms us. It's turnkey completeness offends us.

    We insist on getting out of the cabin to help push the jet. Earning the gift appeals to us. We crave a share of the credit."



    ~Least we agree with the thread's initial post. Suppose that's a start.


    ..........................................................................
    Exactly. And I say that the fact you've been waiting for 2,000+ years, when the first Christians expected the kingdom to come within their own lifetime, is convincing evidence that your views on grace are woefully wrong. With each passing century it seems clearer that god (whatever that may be) is waiting for you to get off your behind and DO something. If you're waiting for him to do all the work and deliver the kingdom to you on a platter, then you're going to be waiting forever. Build it, Grampy, and he will come.
  10. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    07 Aug '10 04:19
    Originally posted by rwingett

    Exactly. And I say that the fact you've been waiting for 2,000+ years, when the first Christians expected the kingdom to come within their own lifetime, is convincing evidence that your views on grace are woefully wrong. With each passing century it seems clearer that god (whatever that may be) is waiting for you to get off your behind and DO something. If y ...[text shortened]... on a platter, then you're going to be waiting forever. Build it, Grampy, and he will come.
    Only one further question, Rwing... what are we building?
  11. Donationrwingett
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    07 Aug '10 11:49
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Only one further question, Rwing... what are we building?
    The kingdom. I thought that much was clear. Jesus showed how to build a new world free from greed, avarice, exploitation and domination, but it's up to us to actually do the work of building it. It is up to us to play an active part in actuating our own salvation.

    It's either that or we can indefinitely prolong the iniquitous world we live in through our idle passivity, praying for god (whatever that may be) to do all the work for us. That waiting game has worked wonders for you so far, hasn't it?
  12. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    07 Aug '10 12:291 edit
    Originally posted by rwingett

    The kingdom. I thought that much was clear. Jesus showed how to build a new world free from greed, avarice, exploitation and domination, but it's up to us to actually do the work of building it. It is up to us to play an active part in actuating our own salvation.

    It's either that or we can indefinitely prolong the iniquitous world we live in thro ...[text shortened]... e) to do all the work for us. That waiting game has worked wonders for you so far, hasn't it?[/b]
    Beginning to get your drift... 'our role is to build a better world sans iniquity'.

    What primary duties and responsibilities does our job description contain?



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  13. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    07 Aug '10 12:34
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Beginning to get your drift... 'our role is to build a better world sans iniquity'.

    What primary duties and responsibilities does our job description contain?



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    To love your neighbor as yourself. To treat the least of these among us as you would treat Him. You know, all that stuff Jesus went on about.
  14. Joined
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    07 Aug '10 13:11
    Originally posted by rwingett
    It's clear the first Christians expected the kingdom to come within their lifetime. 2,000 years later you're still waiting. Why do you think that is? Do you think you'll still be waiting in another 2,000 years? or 20,000 years? You will be if you're relying on grace.
    Er....um......once they died they inherited the kingdom. 😀
  15. Donationrwingett
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    07 Aug '10 13:20
    Originally posted by whodey
    Er....um......once they died they inherited the kingdom. 😀
    That is a Pauline corruption of Jesus' message. When it became apparent that the kingdom was not coming any time soon (because they did nothing to build it), they pushed its coming back into the indeterminate future, and into a non-earthly locale. It went from being about right action to being about right belief. Christianity went from being about Jesus' message to being about Jesus himself.
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