Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhat evidence do you or Abdullah Kareem have that Indonesian Christians attach "pagan meaning" to crucifixes?
if you are unwilling to consider the evidence that the cross which your friends venerate is a pagan symbol then fine, i have provided it and its noted that you are uninterested in the historical evidence.
Originally posted by FMFHappy Resurrection day! He is risen!
I meant to wish those who observe it a Happy Easter yesterday but forgot.
Despite being an ex-Christian, I attended a mass in a packed-to-the-rafters church at 6 pm yesterday evening but had to take my son home early when he got a bit agitated about the long service and having to stand about 30 metres from the church watching the proceedings on a TV monitor! ...[text shortened]... n Christmas for Christians here although I imagine the same would be mostly true the world over.
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Originally posted by FMFI am not questioning what value Indonesian Christians assign to their pagan emblems I am pointing out that irrespective of how much Holy water they douse them in, they are what they are, pagan elements
What evidence do you or Abdullah Kareem have that Indonesian Christians attach "pagan meaning" to crucifixes?
http://www.seiyaku.com/customs/pagan-symbols.html
for anyone interested in the pagan elements inherent within Christianity (may require looking at empirical evidence)
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieFor Indonesian Christians, a crucifix is a representation of the cross on which Jesus died. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?
I am not questioning what value Indonesian Christians assign to their pagan emblems I an pointing out that irrespective of how much Holy water they douse them in, they are what they are, pagan elements
http://www.seiyaku.com/customs/pagan-symbols.html
for anyone interested in the pagan elements inherent within Christianity (may require looking at empirical evidence)
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Originally posted by FMFso you keep saying can you tell us why Indonesians should be exempt from the historical evidence that the cross is of pagan antiquity? You do know that the cross is of pagan antiquity, right?
For Indonesian Christians, a crucifix is a representation of the cross on which Jesus died. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe fact that, for Indonesian Christians, the crucifix is a representation of the cross on which Jesus died, is part of the worldwide historical evidence pertaining to the symbolism and meaning attached to the crucifix.
so you keep saying can you tell us why Indonesians should be exempt from the historical evidence that the cross is of pagan antiquity? You do know that the cross is of pagan antiquity, right?
Originally posted by FMFso they are not exempt from the historical evidence which demonstrates that the cross is of pagan antiquity?
The fact that, for Indonesian Christians, the crucifix is a representation of the cross on which Jesus died, is part of the worldwide historical evidence pertaining to the symbolism and meaning attached to the crucifix.
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-Removed-its not a touchy subject I am just fed up providing evidence for my claims and people dissin it!
I dont take it because I dont have a heavenly hope, my hope is to live forever on a paradise earth, if I had a heavenly hope and I was going to be part of the Kingdom government to rule with Jesus as King and a priest, then I would partake. No one could prevent me from doing so.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe meaning they attach to the crucifix is a part of the the historical evidence concerning the symbolism of the cross around the world.
so they are not exempt from the historical evidence which demonstrates that the cross is of pagan antiquity?
Originally posted by FMFso the historical evidence for the pagan antiquity of the cross also applies to Indonesian Christians meaning that irrespective of what value they invest in it now, it was originally a pagan symbol.
The meaning they attach to the crucifix is a part of the the historical evidence concerning the symbolism of the cross around the world.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe meaning they invest in it now is the only meaning that matters. A symbol only represents the meaning that people invest in it. This does not mean that all people invest the same meaning in it. And it does not mean that the meaning you personally invest in it supersedes or replaces the meaning others invest in it.
so the historical evidence for the pagan antiquity of the cross also applies to Indonesian Christians meaning that irrespective of what value they invest in it now, it was originally a pagan symbol.