Originally posted by galveston75as per usual you have no idea what's being said in the passage. lets start by posting the relevant passage, then we can have a discussionas to its meaning.
Matt 5:1-5...........
1 Now when Jesus saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, 2 and he began to teach them.
The Beatitudes
He said:
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Originally posted by Dowardso only the poor in spirit will go to heaven. I guess that leaves out all those chuffed up "chosen" 144,000 with a heavenly hope
as per usual you have no idea what's being said in the passage. lets start by posting the relevant passage, then we can have a discussionas to its meaning.
1 Now when Jesus saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, 2 and he began to teach them.
The Beatitudes
He said:
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit ...[text shortened]... is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
"the...poor...in...spirit..."
Mwu ha ha ha
Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
those not strong enough to make claim to their heavenly inheritance deserve nothing but the earth.
--or--
Perhaps this is Christ speaking contextually. Jerusalem was an occupied city. The Roman Imperial Theology stated that Ceasar was God, and the prevailing thought was that might makes right and that victory and conquest were more important than peace. Jesus was saying that in the end God's kingdom is made up of the meek and opressed.
But oh these must be mans ideas so they couldn't possibly be right. That's the trouble with you Galvo, you read a book written 2000 years ago in a language different from the one Christ spoke and 150 after his death and ressurection, and you seem to think you can somehow read it literally and make any sense whatsoever out of it...pathetic
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Originally posted by Dowardits a direct quotation from the Psalms Mr pathetic! Galvo knew that, a pity it somehow managed to evade you!
Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
those not strong enough to make claim to their heavenly inheritance deserve nothing but the earth.
--or--
Perhaps this is Christ speaking contextually. Jerusalem was an occupied city. The Roman Imperial Theology stated that Ceasar was God, and the prevailing thought was that might makes righ to think you can somehow read it literally and make any sense whatsoever out of it...pathetic
Originally posted by galveston75Another misunderstanding ot the JWs. There are not two groups
I know this subject has been discussed before but another scripture to think about in showing that not all who are approved by Jesus for life, just go to heaven.
The Sermon on the Mount in Matt 5:1-5 brings this truth out.
Notice verse 3 mentions that a group will be in the "heavens" as it belongs to them.
Notice verse 5 mentions another group that a ...[text shortened]... ittle flock or fold.
This reflects the promise of a new or cleansed heavens and earth.
Jesus has only one flock, not two. The serman on the mount is addressed
to all believers so the all will be entitled to both "the heavens" and "the earth".
And these are the qualities of all believers not just a few. The flock starts
off little and over time grows, but it is still one flock.
Originally posted by SuzianneThe insertion of Jehovah is no big deal. It is all the other changes they
And such as the insertion of the word Jehovah into the New World Translation's New Testament 237 times?
did to try to deny Jesus the proper honor He desires as the second
person of the Trinity that I think is despicable.
Originally posted by galveston75According to the JWs it is too late for you to have a place in the heavens.
Perhaps we could start a new thread on this subject as this thread is about the scripture I referred to at the beginning about the heavenly hope for some and the earthly hope for others. Thanks..
But doesn't it seem strange that they say there will only be 144,000 in
heaven with all that space available? What about the great crowd that
John the revelator saw in heaven. Perhaps the Jw's got it backward or
something. Anyway I guess you can make sense of it.
Originally posted by RJHindsYour so far off from saying you know and understand what we believe. And that's quite amazing seeing how you actually studied with them. It just proves that if one is not looking for the truth, one will not see it as God does not allow you to see it.
According to the JWs it is too late for you to have a place in the heavens.
But doesn't it seem strange that they say there will only be 144,000 in
heaven with all that space available? What about the great crowd that
John the revelator saw in heaven. Perhaps the Jw's got it backward or
something. Anyway I guess you can make sense of it.
Originally posted by galveston75I don't think The Lord was speaking so precisely of the gifts when He spoke the Beatitudes. When one says "the earth will be yours", or "You shall inherit the earth", it could be simple hyperbole (which the Bible is FULL of). Same can be said if someone tells you "yours is the kingdom of heaven". I think it's a simple concept: Jesus encouraged us to be peacemakers, merciful, meek, etc. and promised us that such acts would be rewarded.
Perhaps we could start a new thread on this subject as this thread is about the scripture I referred to at the beginning about the heavenly hope for some and the earthly hope for others. Thanks..
Originally posted by PinkFloydNope sorry. Not being rude but Jesus said what he said. If it was some parable or hyperbole then the whole thing he spoke of here would be a parable.
I don't think The Lord was speaking so precisely of the gifts when He spoke the Beatitudes. When one says "the earth will be yours", or "You shall inherit the earth", it could be simple hyperbole (which the Bible is FULL of). Same can be said if someone tells you "yours is the kingdom of heaven". I think it's a simple concept: Jesus encouraged us to be peacemakers, merciful, meek, etc. and promised us that such acts would be rewarded.
The point is here he clearly spoke of two different groups and two different places for them to eventually go to.
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Originally posted by RJHindsOh my. Anyway Jesus described the little flock as indicating it could have a countable number. On the other hand he described the other sheep as huge crowd that no man could number indicating the total was not known.
Another misunderstanding ot the JWs. There are not two groups
Jesus has only one flock, not two. The serman on the mount is addressed
to all believers so the all will be entitled to both "the heavens" and "the earth".
And these are the qualities of all believers not just a few. The flock starts
off little and over time grows, but it is still one flock.
YOUR bible says that not me.
He spoke of (((((((((( 2 ))))))))))))) seperate groups or flocks.
YOUR bible says that. Not me.
Originally posted by galveston75Are you referring to Luke 12:32 where Jesus says, "Do not be afraid,
Oh my. Anyway Jesus described the little flock as indicating it could have a countable number. On the other hand he described the other sheep as huge crowd that no man could number indicating the total was not known.
YOUR bible says that not me.
He spoke of (((((((((( 2 ))))))))))))) seperate groups or flocks.
YOUR bible says that. Not me.
little flock, for your Father has chosen gladly to give you the kingdom."??
Of course at this time it is a little flock. But now after about 2000 years
do you think it is still little? Hasn't Jesus been waiting all this time to
allow the fulness of the Gentiles to come in to His flock? (Romans 11:25,
Luke 21:24) See Acts 20:28, "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the
flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd
the church of God which He purchased with His own blood." (NASB)
1 Peter 5:2 also refers to the flock of God. Where is it written that God
has two flocks, one bound for earth and the other for the heavens?
I can't find it. Is this another addition to your New World Translation?
I testify to eveyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book:
if anyone adds to them, God shall add to him the plagues which are written
in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this
prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life and from the
holy city, which are written in this book. (Revelation 22:18-19 NASB)
Originally posted by RJHindsYour not reading all the post especially the very first one that started this discussion.. Use YOUR bible and read the scriptures that started the thread.
Are you referring to Luke 12:32 where Jesus says, "Do not be afraid,
little flock, for your Father has chosen gladly to give you the kingdom."??
Of course at this time it is a little flock. But now after about 2000 years
do you think it is still little? Hasn't Jesus been waiting all this time to
allow the fulness of the Gentiles to come in to His flock ...[text shortened]... f life and from the
holy city, which are written in this book. (Revelation 22:18-19 NASB)
Originally posted by galveston75Matthew 5:1-5 is the sermon on the mount and says nothing about
Your not reading all the post especially the very first one that started this discussion.. Use YOUR bible and read the scriptures that started the thread.
God having two flocks. I have also explained what that means on
this thread already. So where in the Holy Bible does it say God
has two flocks?