Hebrews 1:3

@ghost-of-a-duke said
The only reasonable interpretation is that God sent the bears, following His prophet cursing them in His name. The other explanations given are just daft.

'Some' Christians will try to villanize the children, saying they were unruly youths etc threatening his chosen prophet, but we are still left with a deity who forfeits any claim to holiness or righteousness.

You are going to have to do rather better than: "The other explanations given are just daft.". The Bible does not explicitly state that God sent the bears. So, interpretations other than God sent the bears are possible as a matter of basic logic.

We do not have a choice about what is holy or right in God's eyes. If God exists then his nature and not our wishful thinking determines what is holy and right.

As an aside the forty two figure is somewhat suspicious, since later in Kings we get this:

12 And he arose and departed, and came to Samaria. And as he was at the shearing house in the way, 13 Jehu met with the brethren of Ahaziah king of Judah, and said, Who are ye? And they answered, We are the brethren of Ahaziah; and we go down to salute the children of the king and the children of the queen. 14 And he said, Take them alive. And they took them alive, and slew them at the pit of the shearing house, even two and forty men; neither left he any of them.

2 Kings 2:12-14 AKJV

The bears and children story is some sort of literary device foreshadowing this. The Canaanite gods were pretty demanding, Yahweh didn't actually demand child sacrifice [1].

God lays waste to cities in the Old Testament, it's a fair bet that the cities had children in them. Currently a continent sized country is on fire, and to add to their woes they had a hailstorm with hail the size of billiard balls reported. If God exists, and this is independent of which religion is right, he's pretty arbitrary. This is why Christians used to call themselves God fearing, there really is plenty to fear.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna

@deepthought said
We do not have a choice about what is holy or right in God's eyes. If God exists then his nature and not our wishful thinking determines what is holy and right.

This sounds like the set up paragraph for moral assertions that are rooted in circular logic.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
That your God feels righteously justified in sending bears to rip children apart, and that you have no qualms in him carrying out such an act as an apparent response to unrighteousness, is the epitome of all that is wrong with religion and how modern human morality is crushed under its archaic wheels.

The entire universe is His, you again don't grasp holiness and goodness, unrighteous, evil, and wickedness.

@fmf said
This sounds like the set up paragraph for moral assertions that are rooted in circular logic.

Not really, since the definition of "holy" is consecrated to God then what is holy is determined by God's nature. If you do not believe that God exists then nothing is holy, pretty much by the definition of the word "holy". If on the other hand you do believe in God and that God created the Universe then you don't have any more choice about his nature than you do the composition of the Sun.

Since the Ten Commandments aren't particularly controversial and the stuff in Leviticus does not have the status of divine commandment, especially for Christians, everything else is situational.

If we take a look at Genesis there is this:

23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked? 24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein? 25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? 26 And the Lord said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes. 27 And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes: 28 Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it. 29 And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty’s sake. 30 And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there. 31 And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty’s sake. 32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten’s sake. 33 And the Lord went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.

Genesis 18:23-33 AKJV

So God is open to negotiation.

@deepthought said
This isn't quite what the Bible says:[quote]23 And he went up from thence unto Beth-el: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears o ...[text shortened]... s silent on the question of their survival.

[1] https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_kings/2-24.htm

Would you settle for 'I find' other explanations as just daft?

Now it might be true that the text doesn't explicitly state that God sent the bears, but it heavily implies it to the very brink of coloring by numbers. Let's examine 2 Kings 2:24 'And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.'

Did the bears appear coincidentally at that very moment to attack the children? Unlikely. Did God withdraw his protection from the children in order for the bears to attack, meaning (apparently) that children walk around fully and divinely protected from bear attacks until they act unrighteously and lose that protection? Or does the text clearly lay out the divine punishment for those who mock his righteously chosen prophet? - I really do think this is a no brainer.

And the number of children set upon by the bears is a non-issue. It would be just as abhorrent if the prophet cursed only one child in the name of the Lord and then 2 bears appeared to attack him.

@DeepThought

The whole 'bear-gate' incident is commonly defended thus:

'First of all, this was no minor offense, for these young men held God’s prophet in contempt. Since the prophet was God’s mouthpiece to His people, God Himself was being most wickedly insulted in the person of His prophet.

Second, these were not small, innocent children. They were wicked young men, comparable to a modern street gang. Hence, the life of the prophet was endangered by their number, the nature of their sin, and their obvious disrespect for authority.

Third, Elisha’s action was designed to strike fear in the hearts of any other such gang members. If these young gang members were not afraid to mock a venerable man of God such as Elisha, then they would have been a threat to the lives of all God’s people.

Fourth, some commentators note that their statements were designed to challenge Elisha’s claim to be a prophet. They were essentially saying, “If you are a man of God, why don’t you go on up to heaven like Elijah did?” The term “baldhead” might be a reference to the fact that lepers shaved their heads. Such a comment would indicate that these young men looked upon Elisha as a detestable outcast.

Fifth, it was not Elijah who took their lives, but God who alone could have providentially directed the bears to attack them. It is evident that by mocking this man of God, these young men were revealing their true attitudes toward God Himself. Such contempt for the Lord was punishable by death. The Scriptures do not say that Elisha prayed for this kind of punishment. It was clearly an act of God in judgment upon this impious gang.'

https://defendinginerrancy.com/bible-solutions/2_Kings_2.23-24.php

@kellyjay said
No worries, if this is the worst that happens we are in great shape.

Here is the opening, and I believe it covers it too.

--------
The thing is God is unchanging. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. God was perfect in harmony at all times, is, and forever will be. He doesn't change so there isn't a learning curve for God at any point in time or out of time. ...[text shortened]... above all else. They quickly discovered that the ability to know good and evil didn’t make us good.

Hey I'm back. Went to the Natural Bridge Caverns Wildlife Safari drive thru yesterday. Awesome...
Ok and yes I did see that but didn't know which you were referring to.
So a question for you. If Jehovah knew Adam & Eve were going to fail from the beginning ( if this is what you are saying ) then why did he still create them and of course all of the trouble that has caused mankind? Why not just create another pair that would have stayed true to Jehovah and ultimately have kept all humans from inheriting their sin?

@galveston75 said
Hey I'm back. Went to the Natural Bridge Caverns Wildlife Safari drive thru yesterday. Awesome...
Ok and yes I did see that but didn't know which you were referring to.
So a question for you. If Jehovah knew Adam & Eve were going to fail from the beginning ( if this is what you are saying ) then why did he still create them and of course all of the trouble that has ca ...[text shortened]... hat would have stayed true to Jehovah and ultimately have kept all humans from inheriting their sin?

Because there was no Kingdom Hall in the garden of Eden you bozo!

From Watchctower 5/15

Am example of what has been said by critics “The destruction of the Canaanites was a cruel war crime comparable to modern-day genocides.”

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS: “All [God’s] ways are justice. [He is] a God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice.” (Deuteronomy 32:4) An act of divine justice is not comparable to a human war. Why? Because unlike humans, God is able to read hearts—that is, what humans are on the inside.

For example, when God judged the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and determined to bring them to ruin, the faithful man Abraham was concerned about the justice of the matter. He could not imagine that his just God would “sweep away the righteous with the wicked.” Patiently, God reassured him that if there were even ten righteous people in Sodom, He would spare the city on their account. (Genesis 18:20-33) Clearly, God searched through the hearts of those people and saw the depth of their wickedness.—1 Chronicles 28:9.

Similarly, God judged the Canaanites and rightly ordered their destruction. The Canaanites were notorious for their cruelty, which included burning children alive in sacrificial fires. * (2 Kings 16:3) The Canaanites knew that Jehovah had commanded Israel to take possession of all the land. Those who chose to remain and wage war were taking a deliberate stand against not only the Israelites but also Jehovah, who had given powerful evidence that he was with his people.

Moreover, God extended mercy to Canaanites who abandoned their wickedness and accepted Jehovah’s high moral standards. For example, the Canaanite prostitute Rahab was saved, along with her family. Also, when the inhabitants of the Canaanite city of Gibeon sought mercy, they and all their children were preserved alive.—Joshua 6:25; 9:3, 24-26.

@galveston75 said
Hey I'm back. Went to the Natural Bridge Caverns Wildlife Safari drive thru yesterday. Awesome...
Ok and yes I did see that but didn't know which you were referring to.
So a question for you. If Jehovah knew Adam & Eve were going to fail from the beginning ( if this is what you are saying ) then why did he still create them and of course all of the trouble that has ca ...[text shortened]... hat would have stayed true to Jehovah and ultimately have kept all humans from inheriting their sin?

You think it would have been different, had it been Harold and Mildred instead of Adam and Eve? God gave them quite a few things at creation, and they could communicate with God understanding Him as He spoke to them, and each other. They had responsibilities; what God gave them could only come with the reality of being able to say no to God. Among several other things about them and the universe God made.

If God created a universe where it is impossible to say no to God, would that be a universe with loving and faithful people, or with automatons? Could God create a universe where nothing evil could ever be done in it, and wouldn’t that also be not much different than one filled with automatons? The only way people could be made in His image is if our love is genuine! It isn’t real if we also cannot choose to be selfishness to the extreme as well, or none of them are actual possibilities. Knowing this, God knowing the suffering it was going to cost Him, and us; He still did it.

@kellyjay said
You think it would have been different, had it been Harold and Mildred instead of Adam and Eve? God gave them quite a few things at creation, and they could communicate with God understanding Him, as He spoke to them and each other. They had responsibilities; what God gave them could only come with the reality of being able to say no to God. Among several other things about ...[text shortened]... bilities. Knowing this, God knowing the suffering it was going to cost Him, and us; He still did it.

No I'm not saying at all the Jehovah should have created us as robots. Not at all. And yes it would have been great if Adam and Eve had stayed true to Jehovah.
Things would be much different here today if they had. But since they were the first they were the ones held responsible for all of what happens even today because "they were directly told by Jehovah" to simply obey him and as a result for not doing that we all inherited sin.
If they had obeyed but at a later time any of their offspring, like Cain did wrong, Jehovah would have dealt with them individually or in some way we don't know about.
But to say that no matter who Jehovah had created to be the first couple would have sinned anyway is way off. You are in affect calling God pretty cruel. If he didn't think it wouldn't work but did it anyway that is a pretty sad way to look at him.
But if you still think God knew that was going to go all wrong, could you show scriptures for that?

@galveston75 said
No I'm not saying at all the Jehovah should have created us as robots. Not at all. And yes it would have been great if Adam and Eve had stayed true to Jehovah.
Things would be much different here today if they had. But since they were the first they were the ones held responsible for all of what happens even today because "they were directly told by Jehovah" to simply ...[text shortened]... But if you still think God knew that was going to go all wrong, could you show scriptures for that?

I'm calling God sovereign since that is who He is, all of creation is as a result of His sovereignty without exception unless you believe He isn’t in charge of His creation, He is the King of all creation. Going back to everything that is taking place here from the air we breathe to the food we eat it is by God’s design. He has set up reality where we can either obey Him or not, the same choices Adam and Eve both had except we do it with the nature of the fall with us. All of our choices come with consequences; we can act out of love and grace, or selfishness and one-upmanship. When we choose life or death, we are making a choice, when we answer or deny God’s call on our lives, we do so with the abilities to make either choice and we will be held accountable.

Keep in mind, this life isn't the end, where are our hearts, loving this world, or the Lord because there is a joy set before us.

Hebrews 12 (ESV)
Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

@KellyJay
So....is this your answer to my question? Sorry but if it is I don't see it.

@galveston75 said
@KellyJay
So....is this your answer to my question? Sorry but if it is I don't see it.

The creation was good and its completion was called very good. From there it is what we have been making it by twisting it towards our ends by avoiding what God has for us. I'm not sure if you are blaming God for the evil we do.