Hinduism, backdrop to the caste system

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
firstly i have already provided incontrovertible evidence to link Hinduism to the practice of shunning and abusing 'untouchables', perhaps you read the human rights report and secondly i have already been accused and condemned by my own conscience in the matter which has got what to do with you? absolutely zilch, do i lecture you on getting married, ...[text shortened]... moved, so get back Noobster i realised that it was controversial, do you never make mistakes?

Firstly, you're in a public forum, so if you post homophobic language then it has everything to do with me whether you deleted it or not, and anybody else who's offended by it. How would you feel to find that someone had been using the word 'paki'? Not to chippa i would imagine?!

Secondly, this isn't the first time you have used gay slurs against people, you have previous form. Anybody can make a mistake, but you continue to make them.

Finally, go to a Hindu temple and let people who know answer your questions.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Firstly, you're in a public forum, so if you post homophobic language then it has everything to do with me whether you deleted it or not, and anybody else who's offended by it. How would you feel to find that someone had been using the word 'paki'? Not to chippa i would imagine?!

Secondly, this isn't the first time you have used gay slurs against peop ...[text shortened]... make them.

Finally, go to a Hindu temple and let people who know answer your questions.

actually i get it all the time, as does my little boy at school, big deal? people have there own views, are they not entitled to them, and secondly, do not try to hijack the race issue as if it was in some way synonymous with homosexuality, people cannot choose their racial characteristics, but their sexuality they can and do, or perhaps you have any peer reviewed papers to the contrary?

secondly if you noted the tone of the conversation he was accusing the organisation to which i am a member of systematic paedophilia, did you miss that part, has he withdrawn the slur? therefore if he is prepared to get dirty, well what can he expect in return?

yes i shall go to a Hindu temple, ask them why they practice apartheid and expect an objective answer. Feel your bum Noobster, check your vital signs.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
actually i get it all the time, as does my little boy at school, big deal? people have there own views, are they not entitled to them, and secondly, do not try to hijack the race issue as if it was in some way synonymous with homosexuality, people cannot choose their racial characteristics, but their sexuality they can and do, or perhaps you have an ...[text shortened]... ctice apartheid and expect an objective answer. Feel your bum Noobster, check your vital signs.

You may feel it's ok to use homophobic language, i personally find it offensive as does most of civilised society. Feel free to join us when you're ready.

I hope we'll meet in the 21st Century one day.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
You may feel it's ok to use homophobic language, i personally find it offensive.

I hope we'll meet in the 21st Century one day.

did i say it was ok? did my conscience not immediately react and accuse and condemn me? does that appear to you to be someone who thinks that it was ok? does it?

i myself personally find gay pride marches offensive, why indeed should men in leotards paint themselves gold and stick on angels wings and march on public roads to promote their sexuality, do i march up and down saying look at me, im a heterosexual? no then why the double standard?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
did i say it was ok? did my conscience not immediately react and accuse and condemn me? does that appear to you to be someone who thinks that it was ok? does it?

i myself personally find gay pride marches offensive, why indeed should men in leotards paint themselves gold and stick on angels wings and march on public roads to promote their sex ...[text shortened]... , do i march up and down saying look at me, im a heterosexual? no then why the double standard?

no then why the double standard?

Think Rob. Why do you think we have gay pride marches?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
[b]no then why the double standard?

Think Rob. Why do you think we have gay pride marches?[/b]

'we', i never knew you indulged dear Noobster 😉 funny seeing you in a leotard i reckon

actually gay pride marches are used, by the homosexual community to promote their sexuality and by extension their morality. It is a form of propaganda.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
'we', i never knew you indulged dear Noobster 😉 funny seeing you in a leotard i reckon

actually gay pride marches are used, by the homosexual community to promote their sexuality and by extension their morality. It is a form of propaganda.

funny seeing you in a leotard i reckon

More likely likely you'd get aroused, i'm 6' 2" and 200lbs of prime muscle. The sight of my tight pert ass would be enough to bring you out the closet.

actually gay pride marches are used, by the homosexual community to promote their sexuality and by extension their morality

I see it like this. We have been a Christian nation for nearly 2,000yrs, and the Bible as you well know doesn't look too favourably upon homosexuals. Leviticus 20:13 et al. So consequently homosexuals have been killed for many hundreds of years, when that was abolished they were just thrown into jail. When you consider that in 1966 it was still considered acceptable to submit homosexuals to electric shock therapy, it's hardly surprising that homosexuals now wish to celebrate

1. They're not put to death anymore.
2. They're not thrown into jail anymore
3. They're not subjected to babaric experiments to cure them of their 'gayness'.

What you see as 'offensive', i see as a celebration of the further advancement of humanity. Like i said earlier, feel free to join us when you're ready.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
BROKEN PEOPLE
Caste Violence Against India’s “Untouchables”

With little land of their own to cultivate, Dalit men, women, and children numbering in the tens of millions work as agricultural laborers for a few kilograms of rice or Rs. 15 to Rs. 35 (US$0.38 to $0.88) a day. Most live on the brink of destitution, barely able to feed their families a ...[text shortened]... r those with a weak constitution, prepare your mind!


http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/india/

Hey rabbie,

The caste system is formed out of social instead of religious reasons. In the Rigveda there is no such a thing as a rigid “caste system”, and the Purusha Sukta in the 10th Mandala of the Rigveda that you quoted is a later interpolation. Yes, many othodox Brahmins are quoting this hymn in order to back up their stupid and socially dangerous beliefs regarding the caste system, however this attitude is unacceptable by even more Brahmins, because the unchanging Brahman has no body like the humans, and even if s/he had it would be absurd to claim that her/ his feet are unclean compared to her/ his mouth. In addition, in the temples and rituals the believers are worshipping the feet of Brahman much more than any other part of her/ his body.

Mind you, in Mahabharata we see many important personages that they were born in lower castes and still they could elevate from caste to caste. For example a warrior could well become a priest, as is the case with Buddha, Rama and Parashurama. Furthermore, Krishna and his brother Balarama were raised by cow shepherds; the seven incarnations of Vishnu came from lower castes; Rama was assisted by forest duelers; Valmiki, the author of Ramayana, was born in a traditional hunting tribe; Vyasa’s mother was a fisherwoman, and Vyasa is the author of Mahabharata; Satyakama Jabala could not tell who his father was because his mother was a prostitute and could not identify Jabala's father, etc etc. Therefore the ancient Rigvedic society had a flexible caste system, similar to Plato’s ideal society of philosophers, warriors and commoners.

The caste system became rigid during the post vedic era because the overwhelming presence of foreigners forced the Indian society to react this way in order to regulate the inflow of the new members into the vedic society without affecting the given social structure and the dominance of the priests. And unfortunately it ended up as we know it today.

I am aware of the Dalit case and I completely agree with you that this awful practice has to stop immediately -however it is not a Hindu fruit, for the caste system is still adopted by many Christian, Muslim and Buddhist Indians too. Methinks this is the reason why in the Chapter XI, Conclusion, 2nd paragraph of the paper that you quoted, it is mentioned the following:
“To dismiss the violence as purely a “law and order” concern, or to depict it as the inevitable consequence of ancient feuds between caste Hindus and Dalits, or between the haves and the have-nots, is misleading and irresponsible. Such a characterization erroneously suggests that the state has no protective role to play, or that the state itself has not contributed to the abuse.”



No religion😵

Originally posted by Proper Knob
[b]funny seeing you in a leotard i reckon

More likely likely you'd get aroused, i'm 6' 2" and 200lbs of prime muscle. The sight of my tight pert ass would be enough to bring you out the closet.

actually gay pride marches are used, by the homosexual community to promote their sexuality and by extension their morality

I see it like this ...[text shortened]... ancement of humanity. Like i said earlier, feel free to join us when you're ready.[/b]

The sight of my tight pert ass would be enough to bring you out the closet

LOL, i doubt it,

they are free to march, free to express themselves, free to do whatever they want, but in doing so they are suppressing my freedom to express my resolve, indeed, if i utter it in the work place (thankfully i am self employed and can talk to the boss whenever i like about whatever i like), i shall be subject to dismissal, if i ran a guest house and because of my religious conviction i did not want gays to stay in my establishment, i cannot display a sign lest i face prosecution, yet they are allowed to march up and down the highway proclaiming their gayness, its hypocrisy Noobster, utter and complete.

Originally posted by black beetle
Hey rabbie,

The caste system is formed out of social instead of religious reasons. In the Rigveda there is no such a thing as a rigid “caste system”, and the Purusha Sukta in the 10th Mandala of the Rigveda that you quoted is a later interpolation. Yes, many othodox Brahmins are quoting this hymn in order to back up their stupid and socially dangerou role to play, or that the state itself has not contributed to the abuse.”



No religion😵

hey beetle, thankyou for taking the time to read the paper.

yes i read that the vedic verses were deemed by some to be an interpolation, but not knowing enough to determine whether this was the case or not, i took it upon trust that it may be the case. i think that i mentioned that in the original text, there was no provision made for the caste of the untouchable, it came later as the Arayans pushed and enslaved the Dravidic races and others. The strongest reason or line of argument to me , which seemed to inextricably link Hindu religion/belief seemed to be the argument based on reincarnation, the law of Karma and the sacredness afforded to the cow and because of their professions, the Dalit suffered huge and insurmountable prejudice and injustice, they being workers in leather etc etc.

It seems to me dear beetle that this belief , that they are born impure from the profession of their fathers and remain such, is a fundamental Hindu belief, if you can separate it from social convention so as to make a distinction, then i stand to be corrected.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
It is a form of propaganda.

Just like the Watchtower eh?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
[b]funny seeing you in a leotard i reckon

More likely likely you'd get aroused, i'm 6' 2" and 200lbs of prime muscle. The sight of my tight pert ass would be enough to bring you out the closet.

actually gay pride marches are used, by the homosexual community to promote their sexuality and by extension their morality

I see it like this ancement of humanity. Like i said earlier, feel free to join us when you're ready.[/b]

Your nation hasn't even existed for 2,000 years. England is ~1500 years old; it was born when the English defeated King Arthur Pendragon.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Just like the Watchtower eh?

no its not, here is an experiment for you to try, speak against the watchtower in your place of employment, then speak against the practice of homosexuality, come back and tell me how long you lasted with either. do the watchtower first, it will be safer.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Your nation hasn't even existed for 2,000 years. England is ~1500 years old; it was born when the English defeated King Arthur Pendragon.

actually Noobster is Cornish, they have their own king.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
The sight of my tight pert ass would be enough to bring you out the closet

LOL, i doubt it,

they are free to march, free to express themselves, free to do whatever they want, but in doing so they are suppressing my freedom to express my resolve, indeed, if i utter it in the work place (thankfully i am self employed and can talk to the boss whe ...[text shortened]... h up and down the highway proclaiming their gayness, its hypocrisy Noobster, utter and complete.

Homosexuals aren't free do whatever they want, they are merely on an equal footing as hetrosexuals, and rightly so.

Your problem is that you still see homosexuality as a choice, and choose to follow the writings of some unknown Bronze Age desert tribesman. Homosexuals are sinners in your eyes and choose to be sinners at that (heck, you still believe in Adam & Eve!!). I see homosexuals, as the rest of the civilised world do for that matter, as normal people who's sexuality isn't a choice. If they want to parade, so be it, if you want to parade go right ahead, there's nothing stopping you. I also find it a little odd that a member of an oraganisation that turns up on peoples doorsteps uninvited handing out literature, complaining about 'propoganda'.

When the scientific evidence is found that homosexuality is formed in our genes i will laugh my ass off. Why did God create gays, only to then condemn them to death?