1. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
    Uk
    Joined
    21 Jan '06
    Moves
    443
    03 Sep '08 17:34
    This is a test of your heart to see where you are at. It's aimed especially at the ToOne's and Rajk's of this forum.

    Don't think too much about this or it won't work . It's a test of your spontaneous reactions....

    Imagine you have arrived in heaven having lived a life of truth and compassion and you find when you get there that Hitler is up there glorified and transformed by the grace and love of God.


    What do you feel and think?

    a) If you understand the glory of the Gospel and the grace and love of God you will rejoice and be glad that another sinner has made it and is saved.

    b) If your first thought is "what's he doing 'ere , the b'strd when I struggled to live a life of love and he gets the same as me!!!!"

    If you are inclining towards b) then you do not understand the utterly radical and OFFENSIVE nature of God's love and grace and you have underestimated the depths of his forgiveness. You also have not understood that the parable of the talents was aimed at you.
  2. Standard memberSwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    2014.05.01
    Joined
    11 Apr '07
    Moves
    92274
    03 Sep '08 19:19
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    If you are inclining towards b) then you do not understand the utterly radical and OFFENSIVE nature of God's love and grace and you have underestimated the depths of his forgiveness. You also have not understood that the parable of the talents was aimed at you.
    You didn't mention justice. Does this seem like a just result to you?
  3. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    03 Sep '08 19:55
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    You didn't mention justice. Does this seem like a just result to you?
    It could be if you end up equal to or better off than Hitler.

    I personally don't believe in a justice system that punishes for the sake of punishment.
  4. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
    Uk
    Joined
    21 Jan '06
    Moves
    443
    03 Sep '08 20:14
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    You didn't mention justice. Does this seem like a just result to you?
    No , it seems wrong and entirely unjust. Surely at least someone should have to pay for his terrible sins ? Hmmmmmm.....
  5. Standard memberSwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    2014.05.01
    Joined
    11 Apr '07
    Moves
    92274
    03 Sep '08 21:33
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    No , it seems wrong and entirely unjust. Surely at least someone should have to pay for his terrible sins ? Hmmmmmm.....
    Well, don't let me stop you. Remind the forum audience of your concept of Bizarro-Justice once more.
  6. Subscriberjb70online
    State of Confusion
    Lancashire
    Joined
    04 May '08
    Moves
    574712
    03 Sep '08 21:35
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    No , it seems wrong and entirely unjust. Surely at least someone should have to pay for his terrible sins ? Hmmmmmm.....
    “I don't believe that the big men, the politicians and the capitalists alone are guilty of the war. Oh, no, the little man is just as keen, otherwise the people of the world would have risen in revolt long ago! There is an urge and rage in people to destroy, to kill, to murder, and until all mankind, without exception, undergoes a great change, wars will be waged, everything that has been built up, cultivated and grown, will be destroyed and disfigured, after which mankind will have to begin all over again.”
    Anne Frank (1925-1945).
  7. Standard memberSwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    2014.05.01
    Joined
    11 Apr '07
    Moves
    92274
    03 Sep '08 21:352 edits
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    It could be if you end up equal to or better off than Hitler.

    I personally don't believe in a justice system that punishes for the sake of punishment.
    Yes, but your position is harder to take for a Christian. They tend to have this pernicious idea that all sin deserves punishment.
  8. Joined
    04 Feb '05
    Moves
    29132
    03 Sep '08 21:36
    i believe nobody is beyond forgiveness. so if hitler is truly truly sorry, he should be allowed into heaven. after he spends 1 year in hell for every victim of world war II
  9. Standard memberRajk999
    Enjoying
    On the Beach
    Joined
    04 Apr '04
    Moves
    170571
    03 Sep '08 21:55
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    This is a test of your heart to see where you are at. It's aimed especially at the ToOne's and Rajk's of this forum.

    Don't think too much about this or it won't work . It's a test of your spontaneous reactions....

    Imagine you have arrived in heaven having lived a life of truth and compassion and you find when you get there that Hitler is up the ...[text shortened]... ness. You also have not understood that the parable of the talents was aimed at you.
    I would think (a).
    I dont question who Jesus decides to give salvation to.
    Its like the parable of the workers in the vineyard with them all getting the same wage regardless of when they started working.
    Jesus makes the rules for salvation and he can change them at will.
  10. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
    Uk
    Joined
    21 Jan '06
    Moves
    443
    03 Sep '08 23:182 edits
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    Well, don't let me stop you. Remind the forum audience of your concept of Bizarro-Justice once more.
    It's quite simple really . God is a holy fire of righteousness that we have no hope of approaching unless we are justified by Christ. In this sense Christ becomes our justification. God and sin are like oil and water and our sin has to be dealt with. We are not in a position to do this so God does this for us. This is more usually described as Christ "taking our punishment" upon himself etc. He's really more like a radiation suit for us in the fire of God's holiness , but it also works on a punishment /justice level too.

    The point is that if God treated us according to how our "righteousness" matched up to his then we would all be in trouble not just Hitler. But he doesn't. However , justice and holiness still has to be preserved so sin cannot be just left unpunished , hence the cross.
  11. Subscriberduecer
    anybody seen my
    underpants??
    Joined
    01 Sep '06
    Moves
    56453
    04 Sep '08 02:08
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    This is a test of your heart to see where you are at. It's aimed especially at the ToOne's and Rajk's of this forum.

    Don't think too much about this or it won't work . It's a test of your spontaneous reactions....

    Imagine you have arrived in heaven having lived a life of truth and compassion and you find when you get there that Hitler is up the ...[text shortened]... ness. You also have not understood that the parable of the talents was aimed at you.
    did hitler truly repent?
  12. Standard memberSwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    2014.05.01
    Joined
    11 Apr '07
    Moves
    92274
    04 Sep '08 04:361 edit
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    It's quite simple really . God is a holy fire of righteousness that we have no hope of approaching unless we are justified by Christ. In this sense Christ becomes our justification. God and sin are like oil and water and our sin has to be dealt with. We are not in a position to do this so God does this for us. This is more usually described as Christ " iness still has to be preserved so sin cannot be just left unpunished , hence the cross.
    Thank you.

    Only bizarro-righteousness would demand the suffering and death of an innocent as a means of absolving the guilty.
    Only bizarro-justice demands a 'one size fits all' [thanks vistesd!] punishment for ALL sins, from white lies to mass murder.
    Only bizarro-holiness welcomes a mass-murderer into heaven while denying a mere gossip, or glutton, just because the former had the proper change of heart just before his death, and the latter two never did.

    Your philosophy exists in some kind of bizarro-reality, where concepts mean nearly the opposite of what people in this reality understand them to mean.
  13. SubscriberAThousandYoung
    Just another day
    tinyurl.com/y8wgt7a5
    Joined
    23 Aug '04
    Moves
    24791
    04 Sep '08 05:35
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    This is a test of your heart to see where you are at. It's aimed especially at the ToOne's and Rajk's of this forum.

    Don't think too much about this or it won't work . It's a test of your spontaneous reactions....

    Imagine you have arrived in heaven having lived a life of truth and compassion and you find when you get there that Hitler is up the ...[text shortened]... ness. You also have not understood that the parable of the talents was aimed at you.
    Cool...I guess there is no Hell. Just Heaven. God isn't the creepy thing the Christians think he is after all. 🙂
  14. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
    Uk
    Joined
    21 Jan '06
    Moves
    443
    04 Sep '08 22:58
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    Thank you.

    Only bizarro-righteousness would demand the suffering and death of an innocent as a means of absolving the guilty.
    Only bizarro-justice demands a 'one size fits all' [thanks vistesd!] punishment for ALL sins, from white lies to mass murder.
    Only bizarro-holiness welcomes a mass-murderer into heaven while denying a mere gossip, or glutton, ...[text shortened]... here concepts mean nearly the opposite of what people in this reality understand them to mean.
    Your philosophy exists in some kind of bizarro-reality, where concepts mean nearly the opposite of what people in this reality understand them to mean.-----------gambit-----------


    Yes it does. It's totally potty and offensive to this world. I agree entirely!

    God's love is offensive to our sensibilities. You sound like the idignant brother in the prodigal son story. Why should he get the fatted calf when I have been such a good boy?

    The brother did not understand the furious yearning of the father's love.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Only bizarro-holiness welcomes a mass-murderer into heaven while denying a mere gossip, or glutton, just because the former had the proper change of heart just before his death, and the latter two never did."------gambit------------------------------------------------------------

    You think God should judge us on the basis of what we have done and our level of sin? Do you think that the glutton's holiness can merit him heaven or stand in God's holy righteous fire? If he judges us the way you want we are all in deep do-do.

    The point is that without a change of heart nothing can be done with a soul , it cannot be transformed and taken heavenward. WITH a change of heart any soul can be taken and made holy by God. So the change of heart is crucial. The unrepentant glutton is in deep trouble compared with the truly repentant murderer.
  15. Standard memberSwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    2014.05.01
    Joined
    11 Apr '07
    Moves
    92274
    05 Sep '08 06:551 edit
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    Your philosophy exists in some kind of bizarro-reality, where concepts mean nearly the opposite of what people in this reality understand them to mean.-----------gambit-----------


    Yes it does. It's totally potty and offensive to this world. I agree entirely!

    God's love is offensive to our sensibilities. You sound like the idignant brother in t l. The unrepentant glutton is in deep trouble compared with the truly repentant murderer.
    "Offensive" is the wrong word. "Inapplicable" is a better one. Applying Bizarroism to the real world is like applying checkers rules to a game of chess.

    You think God should judge us on the basis of what we have done and our level of sin? Do you think that the glutton's holiness can merit him heaven or stand in God's holy righteous fire? If he judges us the way you want we are all in deep do-do.

    I would think that your God, if he actually existed, would take more responsibility for the shortcomings in his design of humans [since every single one of them sins] and thus not foist all the blame on the humans. Perhaps judgment would not even be the right solution. Rehabilitation would be more reasonable. Certainly anything but torment is preferable. We generally don't think it's morally right to do that to mass murderers here on earth, and God is purportedly more moral than we are.
Back to Top