03 Sep 08
This is a test of your heart to see where you are at. It's aimed especially at the ToOne's and Rajk's of this forum.
Don't think too much about this or it won't work . It's a test of your spontaneous reactions....
Imagine you have arrived in heaven having lived a life of truth and compassion and you find when you get there that Hitler is up there glorified and transformed by the grace and love of God.
What do you feel and think?
a) If you understand the glory of the Gospel and the grace and love of God you will rejoice and be glad that another sinner has made it and is saved.
b) If your first thought is "what's he doing 'ere , the b'strd when I struggled to live a life of love and he gets the same as me!!!!"
If you are inclining towards b) then you do not understand the utterly radical and OFFENSIVE nature of God's love and grace and you have underestimated the depths of his forgiveness. You also have not understood that the parable of the talents was aimed at you.
03 Sep 08
Originally posted by knightmeisterYou didn't mention justice. Does this seem like a just result to you?
If you are inclining towards b) then you do not understand the utterly radical and OFFENSIVE nature of God's love and grace and you have underestimated the depths of his forgiveness. You also have not understood that the parable of the talents was aimed at you.
03 Sep 08
Originally posted by knightmeister“I don't believe that the big men, the politicians and the capitalists alone are guilty of the war. Oh, no, the little man is just as keen, otherwise the people of the world would have risen in revolt long ago! There is an urge and rage in people to destroy, to kill, to murder, and until all mankind, without exception, undergoes a great change, wars will be waged, everything that has been built up, cultivated and grown, will be destroyed and disfigured, after which mankind will have to begin all over again.”
No , it seems wrong and entirely unjust. Surely at least someone should have to pay for his terrible sins ? Hmmmmmm.....
Anne Frank (1925-1945).
03 Sep 08
2 edits
Originally posted by twhiteheadYes, but your position is harder to take for a Christian. They tend to have this pernicious idea that all sin deserves punishment.
It could be if you end up equal to or better off than Hitler.
I personally don't believe in a justice system that punishes for the sake of punishment.
03 Sep 08
Originally posted by knightmeisterI would think (a).
This is a test of your heart to see where you are at. It's aimed especially at the ToOne's and Rajk's of this forum.
Don't think too much about this or it won't work . It's a test of your spontaneous reactions....
Imagine you have arrived in heaven having lived a life of truth and compassion and you find when you get there that Hitler is up the ...[text shortened]... ness. You also have not understood that the parable of the talents was aimed at you.
I dont question who Jesus decides to give salvation to.
Its like the parable of the workers in the vineyard with them all getting the same wage regardless of when they started working.
Jesus makes the rules for salvation and he can change them at will.
03 Sep 08
2 edits
Originally posted by SwissGambitIt's quite simple really . God is a holy fire of righteousness that we have no hope of approaching unless we are justified by Christ. In this sense Christ becomes our justification. God and sin are like oil and water and our sin has to be dealt with. We are not in a position to do this so God does this for us. This is more usually described as Christ "taking our punishment" upon himself etc. He's really more like a radiation suit for us in the fire of God's holiness , but it also works on a punishment /justice level too.
Well, don't let me stop you. Remind the forum audience of your concept of Bizarro-Justice once more.
The point is that if God treated us according to how our "righteousness" matched up to his then we would all be in trouble not just Hitler. But he doesn't. However , justice and holiness still has to be preserved so sin cannot be just left unpunished , hence the cross.
04 Sep 08
Originally posted by knightmeisterdid hitler truly repent?
This is a test of your heart to see where you are at. It's aimed especially at the ToOne's and Rajk's of this forum.
Don't think too much about this or it won't work . It's a test of your spontaneous reactions....
Imagine you have arrived in heaven having lived a life of truth and compassion and you find when you get there that Hitler is up the ...[text shortened]... ness. You also have not understood that the parable of the talents was aimed at you.
04 Sep 08
1 edit
Originally posted by knightmeisterThank you.
It's quite simple really . God is a holy fire of righteousness that we have no hope of approaching unless we are justified by Christ. In this sense Christ becomes our justification. God and sin are like oil and water and our sin has to be dealt with. We are not in a position to do this so God does this for us. This is more usually described as Christ " iness still has to be preserved so sin cannot be just left unpunished , hence the cross.
Only bizarro-righteousness would demand the suffering and death of an innocent as a means of absolving the guilty.
Only bizarro-justice demands a 'one size fits all' [thanks vistesd!] punishment for ALL sins, from white lies to mass murder.
Only bizarro-holiness welcomes a mass-murderer into heaven while denying a mere gossip, or glutton, just because the former had the proper change of heart just before his death, and the latter two never did.
Your philosophy exists in some kind of bizarro-reality, where concepts mean nearly the opposite of what people in this reality understand them to mean.
04 Sep 08
Originally posted by knightmeisterCool...I guess there is no Hell. Just Heaven. God isn't the creepy thing the Christians think he is after all. 🙂
This is a test of your heart to see where you are at. It's aimed especially at the ToOne's and Rajk's of this forum.
Don't think too much about this or it won't work . It's a test of your spontaneous reactions....
Imagine you have arrived in heaven having lived a life of truth and compassion and you find when you get there that Hitler is up the ...[text shortened]... ness. You also have not understood that the parable of the talents was aimed at you.
04 Sep 08
Originally posted by SwissGambitYour philosophy exists in some kind of bizarro-reality, where concepts mean nearly the opposite of what people in this reality understand them to mean.-----------gambit-----------
Thank you.
Only bizarro-righteousness would demand the suffering and death of an innocent as a means of absolving the guilty.
Only bizarro-justice demands a 'one size fits all' [thanks vistesd!] punishment for ALL sins, from white lies to mass murder.
Only bizarro-holiness welcomes a mass-murderer into heaven while denying a mere gossip, or glutton, ...[text shortened]... here concepts mean nearly the opposite of what people in this reality understand them to mean.
Yes it does. It's totally potty and offensive to this world. I agree entirely!
God's love is offensive to our sensibilities. You sound like the idignant brother in the prodigal son story. Why should he get the fatted calf when I have been such a good boy?
The brother did not understand the furious yearning of the father's love.
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"Only bizarro-holiness welcomes a mass-murderer into heaven while denying a mere gossip, or glutton, just because the former had the proper change of heart just before his death, and the latter two never did."------gambit------------------------------------------------------------
You think God should judge us on the basis of what we have done and our level of sin? Do you think that the glutton's holiness can merit him heaven or stand in God's holy righteous fire? If he judges us the way you want we are all in deep do-do.
The point is that without a change of heart nothing can be done with a soul , it cannot be transformed and taken heavenward. WITH a change of heart any soul can be taken and made holy by God. So the change of heart is crucial. The unrepentant glutton is in deep trouble compared with the truly repentant murderer.
05 Sep 08
1 edit
Originally posted by knightmeister"Offensive" is the wrong word. "Inapplicable" is a better one. Applying Bizarroism to the real world is like applying checkers rules to a game of chess.
Your philosophy exists in some kind of bizarro-reality, where concepts mean nearly the opposite of what people in this reality understand them to mean.-----------gambit-----------
Yes it does. It's totally potty and offensive to this world. I agree entirely!
God's love is offensive to our sensibilities. You sound like the idignant brother in t l. The unrepentant glutton is in deep trouble compared with the truly repentant murderer.
You think God should judge us on the basis of what we have done and our level of sin? Do you think that the glutton's holiness can merit him heaven or stand in God's holy righteous fire? If he judges us the way you want we are all in deep do-do.
I would think that your God, if he actually existed, would take more responsibility for the shortcomings in his design of humans [since every single one of them sins] and thus not foist all the blame on the humans. Perhaps judgment would not even be the right solution. Rehabilitation would be more reasonable. Certainly anything but torment is preferable. We generally don't think it's morally right to do that to mass murderers here on earth, and God is purportedly more moral than we are.