Hitler

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Should I attend one of your logic classes where they teach that two contradictory claims can both be true?

I say rape is morally wrong. You say rape is morally wrong. Do you see these as being "two contradictory claims" on account of the fact that you are convinced a supernatural being has communicated its wishes (about rape) to you?

Originally posted by FMF
I am not interested in whether or not you want to attach the word "objective" to your condemnation of rape. I am not interested in whether or not you want to attach the word "objective" to my condemnation of rape. I condemn rape. If you can come up with some argument that you think I might one day adopt that says that rape is not wrong, run it past me. I will respond candidly. It will be a test of my moral sensibilities.

BUMP for Fetchmyjunk

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Should I attend one of your logic classes where they teach that two contradictory claims can both be true?

You wouldn't know a contradictory claim if it located your front at your arse.

Originally posted by FMF
I say rape is morally wrong. You say rape is morally wrong. Do you see these as being "two contradictory claims" on account of the fact that you are convinced a supernatural being has communicated its wishes (about rape) to you?

The point you continue to ignore is that if you assume that there is no objective standard for right and wrong then your belief that rape is wrong is merely your subjective opinion, and you cannot logically argue that someone who holds a different view is objectively wrong, because their view would be just as valid as yours.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
The point you continue to ignore is that if you assume that there is no objective standard for right and wrong then your belief that rape is wrong is merely your subjective opinion, and you cannot logically argue that someone who holds a different view is objectively wrong, because their view would be just as valid as yours.

I have not ignored it. I have addressed it in a dozen or more of my posts and you are blanking it out. I am unaffected by your incessant, entirely subjective insistence that your own personal opinions amount to "the objective standard for right and wrong", and this insistence of yours adds absolutely nothing to your assertion that rape is morally wrong. Nor does it add anything to your daft undisguised-trolling assertion that my stance on this thread has been that I would tolerate the view that rape is not wrong.

Originally posted by FMF
Rape is wrong, Fetchmyjunk. If you think one day that I will argue that rape is not wrong, as you have suggested I might, what kind of argument do you imagine I might use?

BUMP

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
I believe the statement, "you shall not bear false testimony against your neighbour" to be a universal truth. The part about deceiving criminals is obviously part of my interpretation of that truth, I have never claimed that my interpretations are universally true.

What happens when your interpretations of what is "universal truth" and "the objective standard for right and wrong" change because of your personal preferences? What happens then to the "universal" part of the "truth" you espouse? Does the meaning/definition of "universal truth" simply shift so that it once again coincides with your own personal opinions?

Originally posted by FMF
I have not ignored it. I have addressed it in a dozen or more of my posts and you are blanking it out. I am unaffected by your incessant, entirely subjective insistence that your own personal opinions amount to "the objective standard for right and wrong", and this insistence of yours adds absolutely nothing to your assertion that rape is morally wrong. Nor does ...[text shortened]... on that my stance on this thread has been that I would tolerate the view that rape is not wrong.

If your beliefs do not follow logically from the assumptions you make you are being incoherent. It does not logically follow that rape is objectively wrong if you assume that there is no objective standard for right and wrong. You are assuming that there is no objective standard for right and wrong. Therefore based upon that assumption you cannot say that rape is objectively wrong.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If your beliefs do not follow logically from the assumptions you make you are being incoherent. It does not logically follow that rape is objectively wrong if you assume that there is no objective standard for right and wrong. You are assuming that there is no objective standard for right and wrong. Therefore based upon that assumption you cannot say that rape is objectively wrong. If you are happy being incoherent that is fine with me.

I say rape is wrong. If you believe ~ or feel the need to tell yourself ~ that it is more logical or coherent when you say rape is wrong, then good for you. It doesn't have any bearing on your condemnation of rape as far as I am concerned. If you think that at some point in the future I might argue that rape is not wrong, as you have explicitly said on this thread, what kind of argument do you imagine I might use?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If your beliefs do not follow logically from the assumptions you make you are being incoherent.

I have already told you time and time and time again what the sources and substance of my moral sensibilities are. You dubbing it "incoherent" is not going to disguise the fact that you have been largely just blanking out my explanations of the moral stances I take. Your stances entail you attaching all kinds of self-anointing terminology to your personal beliefs. These mean nothing to me.

And for you to say that my condemnation of rape "does not matter", that it makes "no logical sense", or that it is "incoherent", does not elevate or validate your opinion [that rape is wrong] above my exact same statement in the way you seem to think it does.

Originally posted by FMF
I say rape is wrong. If you believe ~ or feel the need to tell yourself ~ that it is more logical or coherent when you say rape is wrong, then good for you. It doesn't have any bearing on your condemnation of rape as far as I am concerned. If you think that at some point in the future I might argue that rape is not wrong, as you have explicitly said on this thread, what kind of argument do you imagine I might use?

We keep talking past each other because I think when you say 'wrong' you actually mean 'subjectively wrong' and when I say 'wrong' I mean 'objectively wrong'. So maybe we need to establish some common ground. When you say 'wrong' what exactly do you mean? Do you believe it would be wrong for all people or only yourself?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
We keep talking past each other because I think when you say 'wrong' you actually mean 'subjectively wrong' and when I say 'wrong' I mean 'objectively wrong'.

It's not that we are talking past each other. I am listening to what you are saying but you are ignoring what I am saying. Your stances entail you attaching all kinds of self-anointing terminology to your personal beliefs. These mean nothing to me.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
When you say 'wrong' what exactly do you mean? Do you believe it would be wrong for all people or only yourself?

I have told you over and over and over again why I believe rape is morally wrong. And you just blank it out and ask the same questions over and over and over again. You have stated explicitly, that you think that, at some point in the future, I might argue that rape is not wrong. What kind of argument do you imagine I might use? I have asked you this question repeatedly and you have just blanked it out every time. You said that I would tolerate the view that rape is not wrong and you thanked me for "clarifying" it. How did you get that from me saying 'rape is wrong'?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
When you say '[rape is] wrong' what exactly do you mean?

This has already been answered. Stop asking the same questions over and over and over again.