Hitler

Originally posted by FMF
So you assume one thing, and then another, pile it on top of the first assumption, and then assume another thing, and pile that on top of the rest - all of them superstitious things that you have no concrete or convincing proof of, mind you - and... hey presto! ...you've granted yourself a licence to unilaterally declare your beliefs and opinions "universally tr ...[text shortened]... for other people with the same belief in supernatural things as you, but it's meaningless to me.

You clearly believe in moral absolutes yet you will continue to deny it.

Originally posted by FMF
Where did I tell you I "assume there's such a thing as a moral law"? Copy paste where I said this. You are ignoring what I have been saying all along and now you are trying to attribute claims and assumptions to me that I have not made.

Something can only truly be said to be good or evil if you assume there is a moral law by which to differentiate between good and evil. If there's no moral Law Giver, there's no moral law. If there's no moral law, there's no good. If there's no good, there's no evil. All you have is your subjective opinions and 'good' and 'evil' are merely adjectives that you use to describe your preferences.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Something can only truly be said to be good or evil if you assume there is a moral law by which to differentiate between good and evil. If there is no moral law then all you have is your subjective opinions and 'good' and 'evil' are merely adjectives that you use to describe your preferences.

We differentiate between what is right and wrong because of our humanity and the moral sensibilities that our faculties and environment equip us with. I don't subscribe to your religionist imaginings about a Moral Law Giver. Don't attribute your superstitious beliefs to me in any shape or form.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
You clearly believe in moral absolutes yet you will continue to deny it.

And you will continue to ignore the fact that my perspective is different from yours and you will continue to behave as if you have not read or understood anything I've said.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
All you have is your subjective opinions and 'good' and 'evil' are merely adjectives that you use to describe your preferences.

All you have is your morality underpants nailed to a mast which has the flag of ancient Hebrew mythology flying atop it, along with an almost autistic perspective on the reality of humans navigating the real world by making the best decisions they can and taking personal responsibility for them.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If there's no moral law, there's no good. If there's no good, there's no evil.

Are homosexuals "evil"?

Originally posted by FMF
We differentiate between what is right and wrong because of our humanity and the moral sensibilities that our faculties and environment equip us with. I don't subscribe to your religionist imaginings about a Moral Law Giver. Don't attribute your superstitious beliefs to me in any shape or form.

If you say you got your moral system from your faculties and the environment, then which society has the right moral system when they contradict each other?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If you say you got your moral system from your faculties and the environment, then which society has the right moral system when they contradict each other?

Give me some scenarios.

Originally posted by FMF
Give me some scenarios.

Cannibals get their moral systems from their faculties and their environment, you get yours from your faculties are your environment. So what makes your system right and theirs wrong?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If you say you got your moral system from your faculties and the environment...

I am saying everyone - you, me, everyone - you and me BOTH - get our moral systems from our faculties and our environment ~ your self-anointing superstitions are a product of your "nurture", your experience, your environment. Your obsession with Christian texts and your god figure is a result of your interactions with your environment.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Cannibals get their moral systems from their faculties and their environment, you get yours from your faculties are your environment. So what makes your system right and theirs wrong?

Well they fall foul of the principle of don't harm, don't deceive and don't coerce, which are a function of my nature and nurture, so I would deem their contravention of such things as wrong. I would disagree strongly with cannibals on moral matters and would probably seek not to interact with them. Has a supernatural being told you cannibalism is wrong?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
The ghost will not admit that there are any moral absolutes because his atheism doesn't allow it. You believe that 'rape is always wrong'. So how do you know that you are right and the ghost is wrong?

I do not believe in a divine moral law giver. I know you struggle with that.

Moral laws therefore can only come from man, and as a result, are not perfect or absolute.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Cannibals get their moral systems from their faculties and their environment, you get yours from your faculties are your environment. So what makes your system right and theirs wrong?

You seem to think that every human has to have the same moral sensibilities, and that those moral sensibilities absolutely have to be the same as yours.

Originally posted by FMF
Well they fall foul of the principle of don't harm, don't deceive and don't coerce, which are a function of my nature and nurture, so I would deem their contravention of such things as wrong. I would disagree strongly with cannibals on moral matters and would probably seek not to interact with them. Has a supernatural being told you cannibalism is wrong?

If these principles of 'don't harm and don't deceive and don't coerce' are not absolute and are just a product of your environment, how can you take them and categorically state that anyone who falls foul to them is wrong? What makes the principles given to you by your environment correct and the principles given to someone else by their environment incorrect?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If these principles of 'don't harm and don't deceive and don't coerce' are not absolute and are just a product of your environment, how can you take them and categorically state that anyone who falls foul to them is wrong?

But I have "categorically stated" that I find people murdering others in order to eat them wrong and that I won't do it or condone it. If that's not good enough for you, why should I care? Has a supernatural being told you cannibalism is wrong? Is that why you feel able to "categorically state" that it is wrong?