Originally posted by chaney3Do you read what people say to you when you have conversations?
My questions are primarily focused on the 'belief' aspect of Jesus.
If....and I mean if, Hitler sincerely asked Jesus for mercy and forgiveness before his death, does he get forgiven and go to heaven?
While at the same time, will a Buddhist go directly to hell upon death because he did NOT believe in Jesus?
This determines whether Jesus died for everyone, or ONLY the ones who believe in Him, and what He did 2,000 years ago.
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Originally posted by chaney3Taking the teachings of Jesus while He walked the Earth as a whole, one must KEEP His word (commandments) for "eternal life" / the Kingdom of God.
No, I am not saying that. Forget the word righteous, it is a distraction.
In my example, Hitler goes to heaven, and two really good people go to hell because they either believed in a deity other than Jesus, or no deity at all.
This question is based on who really did Jesus die for, and if belief in Him is truly necessary.
Because if Hitler goes to heaven, with the forgiveness of Jesus, then it could imply that deeds on earth don't matter.
Perhaps the most prevalent theme of what Jesus taught while He walked the Earth, is the importance of His word:
Understanding His word.
Not just understanding His word, but believing His word.
Not just believing His word, but following His word.
Not just following His word, but keeping His word.
Or if you want to look at it the other way around:
To keep His word, one must follow His word.
To follow His word, one must believe His word.
To believe His word, one must understand His word.
Within that context, what does it mean to "believe" Jesus? To "believe in" Jesus?
Those who keep the word of Jesus, truly "believe in" Jesus.
Those who do not keep the word of Jesus, do not truly "believe in" Jesus - no matter how much they may claim otherwise.
Matthew 21
28“But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, ‘Son, go work today in the vineyard.’ 29“And he answered, ‘I will not’; but afterward he regretted it and went. 30“The man came to the second and said the same thing; and he answered, ‘I will, sir’; but he did not go. 31“Which of the two did the will of his father?”...
Originally posted by KellyJayI appreciate your response, KellyJay. You are not without insight. This is a difficult issue and it gets deep and nuanced, and frankly I'm used to shallow responses on this subject.
All of us are sinners and have fallen short,...
No one is perfect, so to that extent I understand your point. But what about newborns, in what way have they sinned?
And in a way you evaded my question: people who care about right and wrong and try hard to be good but don't believe in Jesus go to hell? while people who straight up behave badly on purpose but believe in Jesus, perhaps on their death-bed, they get heaven?
If Jesus isn't enough for you, what are you going to do, be good
enough on your own, work your way into heaven so God owes you?
I get that point. Our works should come from the path we follow. But is it necessary to believe that Jesus was divine before we follow the good path?
Originally posted by apathistListen, I think newborns like all of us have the same sinful nature we are born with it.
I appreciate your response, KellyJay. You are not without insight. This is a difficult issue and it gets deep and nuanced, and frankly I'm used to shallow responses on this subject.
[b]All of us are sinners and have fallen short,...
No one is perfect, so to that extent I understand your point. But what about newborns, in what way have they sinned? ...[text shortened]... we follow. But is it necessary to believe that Jesus was divine before we follow the good path?[/b]
I believe (MY PERSONAL BELIEF) is that God is just and fair and will not condemn
anyone who doesn't have it in them to be responsible for themselves due to their age
maturity. It is also my belief that we do indeed become aware, and are held accountable
for what we say and do.
So we have a whole world of guilty people before God, they have been sinning since
they could make a choice knowing right from wrong. They have been to various degrees
doing all kinds of things to other people and how they treat the One who created them
is also part of this picture. So what can they do to get right with God, even if they go all
out from one point in their lives could they do enough to clean their sins from themselves?
Most of us don't even believe we are all that bad, and if we get some insight that we have
sinned against another, even God, how do we go about cleaning up our mess? What can
you do if you offend the Creator of the universe that would move God to forgive you? The
thing is there isn't enough we could do, and God knew that! So He did something for us
which was Jesus Christ coming to die, and rise from the dead, taking all of our sins upon
Himself so we could be forgiven! Than we could be in such a state before God He could
give us His Spirit in the here and now! The Spirit of God helps us learn about Him, to walk
with Him, to see us through all of life's ups and downs because life good things could
harm us as the bad ones can.
If we just look at each other all we are really doing is comparing one sinner against
another when in fact we have all sinned. When we look at anyone and say He or she
should not be allowed to be saved we again are looking at the sinner, NOT Jesus who is
our savior! We are not saved because of how much time we have left, because we did
good or bad things, because we hit all check marks on someone's list. We are saved by
Jesus Christ who is our High Priest, who is sitting next to God.
When we get right with God in Jesus Christ, it isn't a get out of hell free card to go on
sinning as if nothing happen to us! We actually are inviting God INTO our lives, being
filled with His Spirit so we can do the things God has for us. It is walking out our lives in
Christ Jesus. I have to tell you too, the very best part of Christianity is God, people suck
and that I'm sad to say includes me too from time to time. Maybe even more than from
time to time. 🙁
Originally posted by apathistIf my last reply was very wordy missing the mark of your questions, sorry! I'll try again if
I appreciate your response, KellyJay. You are not without insight. This is a difficult issue and it gets deep and nuanced, and frankly I'm used to shallow responses on this subject.
[b]All of us are sinners and have fallen short,...
No one is perfect, so to that extent I understand your point. But what about newborns, in what way have they sinned? ...[text shortened]... we follow. But is it necessary to believe that Jesus was divine before we follow the good path?[/b]
you like, or not if I gave you a headache. I hate reading long posts, but I guess I have
no issues writing them!
Originally posted by chaney3Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, the Life" no one gets to the Father except through
Will a Buddist get to heaven?
Without any belief in Jesus?
This is yes or no.
Him. Jesus is it! I'd also point out that not everyone who believes in Jesus is going to get
into Heaven either! Only those who do will, but not everyone, even the devil believes it will
not do him any good.
Originally posted by KellyJayThank you.
Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, the Life" no one gets to the Father except through
Him. Jesus is it! I'd also point out that not everyone who believes in Jesus is going to get
into Heaven either! Only those who do will, but not everyone, even the devil believes it will
not do him any good.
I realize what you are saying, but for such an enormous human sacrifice on the cross, it doesn't seem that too many will benefit, even some Christians.
Doesn't seem right really.
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Originally posted by chaney3No, everyone is qualified because we are all sinners, but not everyone wants it. Look at your own heart, you spend more time worrying about a list of questions about Jesus than Jesus Himself.
You have described a set of conditions whereby not too many will be 'qualified' to receive God's grace.