31 Mar 19
@kellyjay saidThis can apply to the suffering of anyone. I don't claim to have the final answer, but maybe this will help:
[youtube] _vpgPmFFTwo [/youtube]
30 minutes well said.
https://www.focusonthefamily.com/faith/becoming-a-christian/is-christ-the-only-way/how-can-god-allow-so-much-evil-and-suffering
31 Mar 19
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@mchill saidNice link, I like this part when discussing evil.
This can apply to the suffering of anyone. I don't claim to have the final answer, but maybe this will help:
https://www.focusonthefamily.com/faith/becoming-a-christian/is-christ-the-only-way/how-can-god-allow-so-much-evil-and-suffering
"One helpful approach to solving the problem of evil has to do with defining evil. Christian thinker Augustine defined evil not as a thing in and of itself, but as a parasite on good. Something that is lacking is not a thing in itself. For instance, if you have a hole in your jacket, the hole is not something, but rather is something that is lacking. Similarly, Augustine considered evil something that is missing. Indeed, it requires good to exist because it is a parasite. In this sense, Augustine defined evil as a privation – a lack of something – rather than a thing or substance.
This solves some important criticisms. If evil is not an actual thing, then God cannot be the author of evil. God is the author of good, but we make moral choices that result in evil."
This basically reduces evil to something personal, not a substance in my opinion, evil couldn't be a force on its on since it cannot exist without good or love, it is selfishness. If love is always caring for others than not doing so is at odds with both goodness and love.
I have no issue with God creating evil do to this, because once God created a good universe all it took was someone to rebel for it for evil to be there. Without good there couldn't be evil, so He setup the conditions.
31 Mar 19
@kellyjay saidWhat a lot of nonsense.
If evil is not an actual thing, then God cannot be the author of evil. God is the author of good, but we make moral choices that result in evil."
If evil is "not an actual thing" then Man cannot be responsible either.
Besides - this whole "defining" argument makes no sense.
Every culture has a clear understanding of good and evil even if not
agreeing what things are good or evil. To say evil is a lack of good
is merely saying good is a lack of evil ... they are opposites.
You may as well say "stupidity" does not exist ... it is merely the absence of intelligence.
31 Mar 19
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@wolfgang59 saidIf the universe was created as a place for all of those in it to love one another the absence of love creates holes where things are not whole. Selfishness is not a caring trait, and not being intelligent is being stupid, which is not the same as lacking information so one is ignorant.
What a lot of nonsense.
If evil is "not an actual thing" then Man cannot be responsible either.
Besides - this whole "defining" argument makes no sense.
Every culture has a clear understanding of good and evil even if not
agreeing what things are good or evil. To say evil is a lack of good
is merely saying good is a lack of evil ... they are opposites.
You may as well say "stupidity" does not exist ... it is merely the absence of intelligence.
Did you actually watch the video or read the link? I doubt you did so your only opinion is just on a sliver of the topic being discussed, if that is true you may be ignorant talking about something as if you have a clue, and you don't know.
The lack of heat we call cold, not sure why you'd have an issue with this!
31 Mar 19
@kellyjay saidI didn't. I don't think there is a "loving God" that allows suffering or that could end suffering, for that matter, and I am not particularly interested in how or why or what theists think regarding the degree to which their ideology does or doesn't explain if their God "allows" or doesn't "allow" suffering.
Did you actually watch the video or read the link?
It's never been an angle of the theist justification for their religious beliefs [and atheist questioning of religious people's beliefs] that has had much traction with me ~ although I find the arguments put forward by posters like BigDoggProblem and Ghost of a Duke on this issue to be interesting.
So the video doesn't strike me as interesting if the title is anything to go by.
As for the word "evil", I see it as referring simply to certain kinds of morally unsound behaviour. I also see it as a human or social construct, not a supernatural one, even if many humans do superimpose supernatural notions onto the concept of "evil" in their efforts to make sense of the human condition.
I would suggest that "evil" is egregious immorality (as already defined in other discussions) and gratuitous, sociopathic action that is gravely detrimental and/or damaging to others, and which stems from an abject lack or even absence of empathy and compassion.
To avoid confusion, it's probably best used as an adjective rather than a noun. It's not a 'thing' that exists or that was instituted by an evil being. The word "evil" is simply an adjective that is more loaded up with disapproval than the word "bad".
31 Mar 19
@fmf saidThank you for your opinion
I didn't. I don't think there is a "loving God" that allows suffering or that could end suffering, for that matter, and I am not particularly interested in how or why or what theists think regarding the degree to which their ideology does or doesn't explain if their God "allows" or doesn't "allow" suffering.
It's never been an angle of the theist justification for their relig ...[text shortened]... The word "evil" is simply an adjective that is more loaded up with disapproval than the word "bad".
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31 Mar 19
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@KellyJay
If evil is not an actual thing, then God cannot be the author of evil, and serial killers can not be practitioners of it. (The worst that can be said is that serial killers are lacking in goodness).
31 Mar 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidGoing to the example of heat and cold, it is the lack of heat that gives us cold. It is the lack of light that gives us darkness. It is the lack of love that gives us evil.
@KellyJay
If evil is not an actual thing, then God cannot be the author of evil, and serial killers can not be practitioners of it. (The worst that can be said is that serial killers are lacking in goodness).
The world was made for love and we turned into self centered place where we consistently look to ourselves, many times at the expense of others.
Did you watch the video? Of the ones you have watched this one is one of my favorites!
31 Mar 19
@kellyjay saidWhen it comes to argumentation, you're not supposed to redefine terms as you see fit. That is actually a way of avoiding the argument (by changing it to something that is easier to deal with).
Nice link, I like this part when discussing evil.
"One helpful approach to solving the problem of evil has to do with defining evil.
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31 Mar 19
@kellyjay saidI'm looking for a video from a theistic point of view that doesn't shirk away from the existence of evil but offers a reasonable explanation why an all-powerful and perfectly loving deity is compatible with suffering and lack of divine intervention. (Preferably one that doesn't tender weak arguments such as human free will and the like).
Going to the example of heat and cold, it is the lack of heat that gives us cold. It is the lack of light that gives us darkness. It is the lack of love that gives us evil.
The world was made for love and we turned into self centered place where we consistently look to ourselves, many times at the expense of others.
Did you watch the video? Of the ones you have watched this one is one of my favorites!
If your video delivers on that kelly, I'll watch it.