24 Nov 12
2 edits
Originally posted by RJHindsthe first death is due to inherent imperfection, being born into a sinful state and dying,
What is the difference between the first death and the second death?
the second death is after having lived life, after having died and been resurrected to
reject the Christ.
25 Nov 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWrong! Read this!
the first death is due to inherent imperfection, being born into a sinful state and dying,
the second death is after having lived life, after having died and been resurrected to
reject the Christ.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Believer's%20Corner/Doctrines/second_death.htm
25 Nov 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieFree will, my good man, free will.
really, if your salvation is assured as you claim, why does Christ state that, he or she
that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved, why does Paul speak of
putting up a fine fight for the faith, if your salvation is already assured, then these
verse have no real meaning and you are in fact making a mockery of the Bible. That
b ...[text shortened]... that you
are the recipient of Gods grace and another person unworthy? How will you explain it?
I still say salvation IS assured, for those who uphold their end of the bargain.
There is always a caveat.
25 Nov 12
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsI see nothing here indicating that the Lake of Fire will be a torment "for all eternity". Yes, the Bible mentions "everlasting fire", but it is the fire that is everlasting, not the torment of those cast into it.
Wrong! Read this!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Believer's%20Corner/Doctrines/second_death.htm
Souls are sent to the Lake of Fire just as in The Lord of the Rings, the One ring was sent to Mount Doom, to the Crack of Doom, to be annihilated. The second death is the death of the soul, and in this case, the torment is the eternal and permanent separation from God, the death of the Soul, and at that time the soul ceases to exist. Only in this sense is it to be considered "for all eternity" for once the soul is dead, it is gone. All this talk of torment for all eternity in a lake of fire is exactly what is mentioned in the OP in this thread. People taking pleasure that their enemies will be tortured forever and ever. This is not Christian and this is not Godly.
This page refers to the first death being the fall of Man in the Garden, this is entirely believable and frankly, I had never considered this before, but it rings true for me. But this is a death of the spirit, not the soul. The soul dies in the second death.
25 Nov 12
Originally posted by SuzianneThe sooner these Abrahamic religions die out the better it will be for civilization.
I see nothing here indicating that the Lake of Fire will be a torment "for all eternity". Yes, the Bible mentions "everlasting fire", but it is the fire that is everlasting, not the torment of those cast into it.
Souls are sent to the Lake of Fire just as in The Lord of the Rings, the One ring was sent to Mount Doom, to the Crack of Doom, to be annihila ...[text shortened]... me. But this is a death of the spirit, not the soul. The soul dies in the second death.
Suzianne, doesn't it bother you in the least that women are put on a lower plane than men in these religions, what part of Leviticus 27 don't you understand?
Women openly scorned as we speak in Islam, very few women in high positions in almost any denomination, perhaps excluding yours.
We have a friend who is a pediatrician, has an MD and all that, was dissatisfied with her life as a doctor and went to Moravian divinity college here in Bethlehem Pa.
She got her divinity degree with top honors.
She is trying to find a church to give services but she is running into roadblocks, surprisingly not from the men but from the women of several churches in the area.
We (my wife and I) used to go to Asbury Methodist church and so did she but do you think she could find a position there? No. And no other church she applied to either. And it is not the men objecting but the women.
Tells me women in Christianity are so thoroughly brainwashed they buy the lower rung position of women hook line and sinker.
It tells me this is all a scam, made up by men for political power and to keep women down which for the vast majority has worked extremely well.
It seems to me a real god would never set up a two tier system like that.
We are losing the intellectual benefits of women and mainly having to do all the brainwork ourselves (men) and the world is in a lot sorrier state because of that.
We could have had twice the brainpower put to real problems we have but women are discriminated against in almost every professional field including science.
Seems to me all a real god would need is about one microsecond to see the dichotomy there and start to kick butt.
The fact that hasn't happened and is a very good bet to say it never will intercede even if we drive ourselves extinct.
If anything, to me, if there is some kind of god who set all this up, the fact that it is non interacting with us tells me it would have to be some kind of experiment and it wins or loses based on our own merits.
If we drive ourselves extinct, Oh well, too bad, another 10 million years and some new intelligence will arrive on Earth and a new experiment begins.
25 Nov 12
2 edits
sonhouse, your last statement tells us all we need to know about your paradigm. You don't care if we wipe ourselves out; we're just an experiment anyway. There is absolutely nothing wrong with people being assigned roles, especially when there is a task at hand. Should the offensive linemen bitch and moan because THEY never got a chance at playing QB? For a society, a civilization to survive, then roles should be assigned. That's not an absolute; there are always extraordinary situations that call for an extraordinary person to rise up and play the role they aren't typically assigned to.
Why is God "bad" because He says, "person type X does this, and person type Y does this."
You conclude that Christianity, which had its beginnings many thousands of years ago, is really just a veiled plot to keep men permanently in control? Really? Seriously? All I ever hear from the God-haters is that thousands of years ago mankind was really "stupid" and "primitive" ... and yet, they were able to devise an infinitely complex, secret system of control that would survive thousands of years of scrutiny?
25 Nov 12
Originally posted by sumydidSecret? SECRET? Are you blowing smoke out your asss or something? Did you notice I said the Abrahamic religions? All three of the fluckers. Did you get the part where in Saudi women can't even get a drivers license?
sonhouse, your last statement tells us all we need to know about your paradigm. You don't care if we wipe ourselves out; we're just an experiment anyway. There is absolutely nothing wrong with people being assigned roles, especially when there is a task at hand. Should the offensive linemen bitch and moan because THEY never got a chance at playing QB? Fo ...[text shortened]... complex, secret system of control that would survive thousands of years of scrutiny?
When the Taliban beasts take over, they stop women from getting an education, and one girl just got shot for daring to buck the sharia law they want to set up.
How many men have been burned as witches in the witch hunts?
How many women are in charge of the money or are the president of your organization?
How many women priests are there in your denomination?
How many women popes have there been?
And they justify it all by just pointing to leviticus 27. See, it's all right there in the BIBLE.
Even the gender we give to all three abrahamic religions, is he.
Now tell me why would a god have a need for genitals much less be assigned one of them?
Couldn't be because men made the whole thing up could it?
It's the biggest ponzi scheme of the last 3000 years.
It worked really really well, women are in their place, they even agree with the deal. Great work.
It's not like we really could use the extra brain power or anything like that.
No, men have all the worlds' problems in hand, wars winding down, check. Climate under control, check. World economy in GREAT shape, check.
Yessir, men have done a GREAT job of sheparding the planet. We don't need the help of those stinking women do we? They are just bed fodder, baby makers.
25 Nov 12
Originally posted by sonhousedude you are still ranting! If yo cannot get to a sauna i know how to make a steam
Secret? SECRET? Are you blowing smoke out your asss or something? Did you notice I said the Abrahamic religions? All three of the fluckers. Did you get the part where in Saudi women can't even get a drivers license?
When the Taliban beasts take over, they stop women from getting an education, and one girl just got shot for daring to buck the sharia law ...[text shortened]... don't need the help of those stinking women do we? They are just bed fodder, baby makers.
room in your house, from a tent and a steam wall paper remover.
25 Nov 12
1 edit
Originally posted by sonhousesonhouse. We get it. It's a cause worth fighting for and I suggest you fight for it without spending your precious time ranting about it to people who aren't in a position to help you.
Secret? SECRET? Are you blowing smoke out your asss or something? Did you notice I said the Abrahamic religions? All three of the fluckers. Did you get the part where in Saudi women can't even get a drivers license?
When the Taliban beasts take over, they stop women from getting an education, and one girl just got shot for daring to buck the sharia law don't need the help of those stinking women do we? They are just bed fodder, baby makers.
The best place to start is fighting for women's rights in places like Afghanistan, and the Middle East. That is where they are oppressed the most. But beware: these are sovereign countries and if you set foot in their territory with the intention of changing their way of life, you will be shunned by the entire world community (see USA and its tail between its legs as we back out of Afghanistan only to watch the Taliban seize control).
25 Nov 12
Originally posted by SuzianneAnd the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.
I see nothing here indicating that the Lake of Fire will be a torment "for all eternity". Yes, the Bible mentions "everlasting fire", but it is the fire that is everlasting, not the torment of those cast into it.
Souls are sent to the Lake of Fire just as in The Lord of the Rings, the One ring was sent to Mount Doom, to the Crack of Doom, to be annihila ...[text shortened]... me. But this is a death of the spirit, not the soul. The soul dies in the second death.
(Revelation 19:20 NASB)
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.
(Revelation 20:1-3 NASB)
And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
(Revelation 20:10 NASB)
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
(Revelation 20:14-15 NASB)
From the above verses, we can see that the beast and the false prophet are thrown alive into the lake of fire. Then after a thousand years and his release from the prison in the abyss to deceive the nations, the devil is also thrown into the lake of fire to be tormented forever and ever.
Notice that the beast and false prophet are still there in the lake of fire after 1000 years and are still being tormented day and night. They have not been annihilated. If they were annihilated they could not be tormented day and night forever and ever along with Satan the devil.
Then it says of those in the second resurrection, if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Why should we think that they will be annihilated and not also be tormented day and night forever and ever along with the beast, false prophet, and the devil and his demons?
Jesus gave a couple parables that may shed more light on this:
In the parable of the talents, Jesus said, "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
(Matthew 25:30 NASB)
In the parable of the sheep and the goats, Jesus said, “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels" and also "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
(Matthew 25:41,46 NASB)
This place of eternal fire seems to me to be the same as the lake of fire. Certainly Jesus means eternal to be forever and ever. So are you going to argue that our eternal life will not last forever and ever? If not, then why do you argue that the punishment of weeping and gnashing of teeth does not last forever and ever.
HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!
25 Nov 12
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsdeath and hades are inorganic, how is literal fire going to harm them? clearly it is not !
And [b]the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.
(Revelation 19:20 NASB)
Then I saw an angel coming down from h h does not last forever and ever.
HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy![/b]
thus by a simple examination of the content, your assertions are once again, proven to
be false. The lake of fire is therefore likewise, symbolic.
25 Nov 12
2 edits
Originally posted by sonhouseTell your friend to get in touch with the main conference of bishops in her area to apply for a position as a minister in the United methodist Church. My wife's church has had many women ministers while she was secretary of the church. The ministers will have to be prepared to move to different areas in the state however because every few years they come up for rotation to another church. But she will not have to look for a place to live because there is a house provided near the church where she will be appointed to serve.
The sooner these Abrahamic religions die out the better it will be for civilization.
Suzianne, doesn't it bother you in the least that women are put on a lower plane than men in these religions, what part of Leviticus 27 don't you understand?
Women openly scorned as we speak in Islam, very few women in high positions in almost any denomination, perha 10 million years and some new intelligence will arrive on Earth and a new experiment begins.
25 Nov 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSure death and hades are symbolic of places where the souls were kept until the lake of fire punishment. These places were never claimed to undergo any punishment, only they would now be located at the same place as the lake of fire. You could also say the lake of fire is symbolic of a place of eternal punishment. However, that does not mean that the punishment is only symbolic. Do you think eternal life is also symbolic?
death and hades are inorganic, how is literal fire going to harm them? clearly it is not !
thus by a simple examination of the content, your assertions are once again, proven to
be false. The lake of fire is therefore likewise, symbolic.
Jesus informs us that there are real punishments and rewards. So I think you better take heed to the truth that he speaks.
HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!
25 Nov 12
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI don't know why you'd think inorganic or organic would matter in this case, since
death and hades are inorganic, how is literal fire going to harm them? clearly it is not !
thus by a simple examination of the content, your assertions are once again, proven to
be false. The lake of fire is therefore likewise, symbolic.
God created everything and knows how to deal with each. If He chooses to use
a fire to burn them they will be burned.
Kelly
25 Nov 12
Originally posted by KellyJayhow can you burn death and hades, don't be silly!
I don't know why you'd think inorganic or organic would matter in this case, since
God created everything and knows how to deal with each. If He chooses to use
a fire to burn them they will be burned.
Kelly