How many here want freedom FROM religion?

Originally posted by sonhouse
But what about when your kids are ready for HS and they find they have to listen to creationism being taught along side evolution in a science class as if it were a viable scientific alternative?

Or doctors not telling female patients about various forms of birth control because it is against HIS religion?

What about people who are caught up in some ...[text shortened]... ou a hint as to why I want freedom FROM religion?

Religion is the scourge of mankind.

You're headed in the right direction with all that sonhouse, but the thing is you really don't understand why.

There is a root cause for the dilemma that "religion" brings.

Religion is the exact opposite of the truth.

Originally posted by sonhouse

Does that give you a hint as to why I want freedom FROM religion?

Religion is the scourge of mankind.

what about some armed bandits coming to your door and saying your property now belongs to the "people" (whatever that means?)

what about somebody coming to your country and saying "hello, we're going to bring you democracy, would you mind very much if we dropped bombs on your heads? no? great!"

that's why i want freedom from ideology (which includes religion since all religions are ideologies).

ideology is the scourge of mankind.

We both said religion is a scourge sonhouse.

Originally posted by sonhouse
As opposed to freedom OF religion?

Do you feel your personal freedom is in some way infringed by religion; what type of freedom are you talkig about?

How about freedom from lawmakers who make laws based on their religious beliefs, forcing their morals on those of us who don't share them? That is how religion infringes on others. It happens all over the world, and I'm not even counting the actual theocracies.

Laws ought to be written along rigid philosophical/logical role-of-government lines, with special attention to potential abuses of power, individual rights and the tyranny of the majority. Laws ought to be conceived with the best interests of humanity and, to a somewhat lesser extent, citizens at heart, not personal ideology pushing.

But that means we need to let evidence and reality determine policy, not some delusional "middle ground" when one side is clearly full of crap or wants to hold on to a tested and clearly disproved concept just to save face or push some other agenda.

This is the fantasy world I'd like to live in. That's what freedom from religion would mean to me. I don't think it's ever existed for more than a couple years anywhere.

Originally posted by UmbrageOfSnow
Laws ought to be conceived with the best interests of humanity and, to a somewhat lesser extent, citizens at heart, not personal ideology pushing.

I'm not sure how many of the religionists here actually want to exercise power in accordance with their theology (or see it exercised by others on their behalf), but - as for their perception of "the best interests of humanity and [...] citizens" is concerned - I'm pretty sure that they are firmly convinced that the adoption of their religion would be in those best interests, and therefore principles that are based on their beliefs would need to be central in determining how "laws ought to be conceived". If you insisted that their perspectives were somehow factored out or excluded, then they would surely see this as an example of your "personal ideology pushing".

Originally posted by Kewpie
It'd be nice, but it's not going to happen, human nature being what it is.

I live in a secular country, where people have complete freedom of religion, and you still can't escape it. On one hand, the rednecks who can't tolerate anything they didn't grow up with, who think the appearance of a mosque indicates that the country has been invaded by terrorist e my life. And the next time someone offers to pray for me I swear I'll become violent.

it seems strange dear Kewpie that you should chastise people, for example the red
necks for their lack of tolerance and yet seem so rather intolerant yourself, just saying.

Originally posted by sonhouse
As opposed to freedom OF religion?

Me me, I want Jesus!
Kelly

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
what about some armed bandits coming to your door and saying your property now belongs to the "people" (whatever that means?)

what about somebody coming to your country and saying "hello, we're going to bring you democracy, would you mind very much if we dropped bombs on your heads? no? great!"

that's why i want freedom from ideology (which includes religion since all religions are ideologies).

ideology is the scourge of mankind.

Let's form the FFRAI league!

Originally posted by sonhouse
You cannot be serious, as John used to say. You are so deeply embedded in religion you can't wake up and smell the roses any more.

You cannot be serious, as John used to say. You are so deeply embedded in religion you can't wake up and smell the roses any more.

I am very serious.

Religion is the kind of thing you can leave, but it doesn't leave you that easily.

Living in Christ is spontaneous. It is not an act. It is not how you act. It is how you REACT. And it is often unconscious. You simply live in oneness with the living Person of the Son of God.

As you experience Christ more and more you realize how much you have been "religious" trying to do good, trying to not do bad.


The tension between revelation and religion, reality and religion, runs through the entire Bible staring with Cain and Abel all through to the destruction of "Babylon the Great" in the book of Revelation.

Reality is really verses religion. And God is not the God of religion. He is the God of reality.

Look at it this way. If gravity is a real thing, it is not just real in the physics class room. It is real everywhere.

If God is reality, He is not the God of religion. He is the God period, everywhere.

Originally posted by jaywill

You cannot be serious, as John used to say. You are so deeply embedded in religion you can't wake up and smell the roses any more.

I am very serious.

Religion is the kind of thing you can leave, but it doesn't leave you that easily.

Living in Christ is spontaneous. It is not an act. It is not how you act. It is how you REACT. ...[text shortened]... e.

If God is reality, He is not the God of religion. He is the God period, everywhere.

That is as religious a stance as any other. Why do you think this is not religion?

Originally posted by divegeester
Do you feel your personal freedom is in some way infringed by religion; what type of freedom are you talkig about?

I'm not talking just about me but about the control religionists try to put on the population, like claiming homosexuality is an abomination when it is no such thing.

Like forcing young pregnant girls, victims of rape, to exhort them to carry to term.

Like forcing creationism to be taught in a science class as if creationism was some kind of science which it is clearly not. This is just a blatant attempt at religious control through political means.

Like being in a religious area and not being invited in socially unless you join that religion. They cannot accept people unless they are the same religion.

Like the mistrust of one religion, indeed, hatred, of other religions.

Like not having to have your village attacked BECAUSE you are not say, Muslim, and those Muslim terrorists animals want to force you to become Islam.

Like leaving a religion, called apostasy, even now, can mean death in some Islam countries and it used to be that way in so-called Christian ones.

Originally posted by sonhouse
As opposed to freedom OF religion?

Aside from describing the sins of religion against others, has anyone here have a reason to say they do not have freedom from religion, and if so, have they described how they are deprived of that freedom and the harm it is causing them?

Just curious -- this is not a rhetorical question. There may in fact be some-such people.

Originally posted by sonhouse
As opposed to freedom OF religion?

It is either both, or none.

Originally posted by sonhouse
That is as religious a stance as any other. Why do you think this is not religion?

That is as religious a stance as any other. Why do you think this is not religion?

I think that because when you experience the resurrected Christ you realize that there is a difference.

We can do a lot of things without God. They are apparently related to God but may not involve God.

I call all things related to God but without Christ - religion.
That includes any kind of "anity".