Huge anti-gay marriage protest march in Paris

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
from the actual report,

The results reveal numerous, consistent differences, especially between the children of women who have had a lesbian relationship and those with still-married (heterosexual) biological parents.

complied by, Mark Regnerus, Department of Sociology and Population Research Center, University of Texas at Austin, 1 University ...[text shortened]... u are posting falsehoods or the good people in the sociology department of Texas university are.

"your claim was that there is no difference,"

sorry im not sure what you are referring to here? could you elaborate, just so i know we are talking about the same thing?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
"your claim was that there is no difference,"

sorry im not sure what you are referring to here? could you elaborate, just so i know we are talking about the same thing?

yes your claim is that there should be absolutely no difference on children brought up by same sex unions as those with married heterosexual biological parents, clearly the sociology department at the University of Texas thinks differently.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes your claim is that there should be absolutely no difference on children brought up by same sex unions as those with married heterosexual biological parents, clearly the sociology department at the University of Texas thinks differently.

you are misunderstanding the paper. the paper is comparing children brought up in a hetrosexual house with married parents (no instances of divorce) with children who are brought up where one of the (natural) parents is homosexual.

in the case of the lesbian natural mothers living with a lesbian partner the study showed poorer development than the hetrosexual group.
what the study failed to factor was the majority of lesbian mothers living with lesbian partners were divorced from the childs father.

one set of children were from un-broken homes, the other set the majority were from broken homes.

so the study is in conclusive as the study needed to compare like for like, as the problems of the lesbians child could be related to divorce rather than the sexuality of the mother.

"clearly the sociology department at the University of Texas thinks differently"

here is a quote from one of his superiors at the university of texas -

"As a family sociologist at the University of Texas, I am disturbed by his irresponsible and reckless representation of social science research, and furious that he is besmirching my university to lend credibility to his "findings." debra umberson prof of sociology texas university.

and

"We are dismayed by the poor quality of this analysis. Regnerus is not an expert in family sociology, nor does he represent the views of other faculty at the University of Texas. I have been conducting research on family relationships, including gay and lesbian relationships, for many years. Yet the first I learned of this study was when it hit the press. Had Regnerus walked down the hall and knocked on my door, I would have been happy to explain that stress and instability harm children in any family context. Love and support help children to thrive and succeed. Pseudo-science that demonizes gay and lesbian families contributes to stress, and is not good for children." deborah umberson.

"Debra Umberson collaborated with three other prominent family sociologists at the University of Texas, Austin, to assess the scientific merits of Regnerus' research. These colleagues include: Shannon Cavanagh, Associate Professor, University of Texas, Austin; Jennifer Glass, Barbara Bush Professor of Liberal Arts, University of Texas, Austin; and Board Member of the Council on Contemporary Families, Kelly Raley, Professor, University of Texas, Austin and Editor, Journal of Marriage and Family"

Originally posted by stellspalfie
you are misunderstanding the paper. the paper is comparing children brought up in a hetrosexual house with married parents (no instances of divorce) with children who are brought up where one of the (natural) parents is homosexual.

in the case of the lesbian natural mothers living with a lesbian partner the study showed poorer development than the he ey, Professor, University of Texas, Austin and Editor, Journal of Marriage and Family"

what the study failed to factor was the majority of lesbian mothers living with lesbian partners were divorced from the childs father.

Is hardly relevant whether they were divorced or not for the study makes it quite clear that the comparison is between same sex unions and those who are married. The fact that they are in same sex unions and also divorced from a heterosexual is relevant how? that they were from now broken homes? hardly the comparison is not between broken and unbroken homes but homosexual and heterosexuals, that fact that some same sex unions just happen to be also from so called broken homes is hardly significant, or at least you have failed to demonstrate why it should be of significance. All you have provided is some speculative assertion of may be, could be and its possible that.

I dont care what someone else thinks of the report, i have my own mind and may even even be prepared to use it.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
what the study failed to factor was the majority of lesbian mothers living with lesbian partners were divorced from the childs father.

Is hardly relevant whether they were divorced or not for the study makes it quite clear that the comparison is between same sex unions and those who are married. The fact that they are in same sex unions and also ...[text shortened]... t someone else thinks of the report, i have my own mind and may even even be prepared to use it.

if all the hetrosexuals are married and all the lesbians are divorced how can we tell if the children are preforming worse because of divorce or because of a gay parents?


you mentioned in your previous post that the faculty of texas university agreed with the study. when i provide evidence that they didnt you reply with 'i dont care what someone else thinks of the report'. can you see why that seems a bit dishonest, you were happy to use the uni staff for your argument, but wont accept them when they dont.

would it change your mind if i post mark himself admitting that he made errors in his comparisons, or do you not even care what the author himself thinks?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
what the study failed to factor was the majority of lesbian mothers living with lesbian partners were divorced from the childs father.

Is hardly relevant whether they were divorced or not for the study makes it quite clear that the comparison is between same sex unions and those who are married. The fact that they are in same sex unions and also ...[text shortened]... t someone else thinks of the report, i have my own mind and may even even be prepared to use it.

i have my own mind and may even be prepared to use it

Easy now Rob, let's not rush into these things. Do you need to lie down?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
if all the hetrosexuals are married and all the lesbians are divorced how can we tell if the children are preforming worse because of divorce or because of a gay parents?


you mentioned in your previous post that the faculty of texas university agreed with the study. when i provide evidence that they didnt you reply with 'i dont care what someone el ...[text shortened]... hat he made errors in his comparisons, or do you not even care what the author himself thinks?

I am interested in the data, not what someone else thinks about the data, as for you assertions, what evidence do you have that it was as a result of being part of a broken home rather than part of a same sex union that contributed to the factors and what percentage of same sex unions cited by the report were divorcees?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
[b]i have my own mind and may even be prepared to use it

Easy now Rob, let's not rush into these things. Do you need to lie down?[/b]

no i am doing tactical exercises on chess.com, every time i get one wrong i do some physical exercise, press ups, sit ups, you know the thing, its my chess tactics workout routine, good for the mind and good for the body.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I am interested in the data, not what someone else thinks about the data, as for you assertions, what evidence do you have that it was as a result of being part of a broken home rather than part of a same sex union that contributed to the factors and what percentage of same sex unions cited by the report were divorcees?

i understand why you are not interested in someone else thinks about the data. but if thats how you feel why offer the opinions of the texas university staff to me, what was the purpose?


sorry, there was one other thing i forgot to mention in my last post.

you mentioned that the study was comparing heto couples with homo couples. this is incorrect.
the study is looking at the effects of having a gay parent. more than 3/4's of the children didnt live with their gay parent (40 from 170). so it would be impossible to acquire proof of gay couples as parents from the study.
this makes the divorce factor even more relevant.

i dont have the divorce numbers to hand, ive read through lots of stuff so will attempt to dig it out, but we know that at least 51% of the 170 come from divorced parents. which is more than enough as that would leave only 85 non divorced homo-parents against 170 hetro non divorced..................then we have to factor back in that only 1/4 live with their parents.

off out to pre-school, will dig out the data when i get back.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no i am doing tactical exercises on chess.com, every time i get one wrong i do some physical exercise, press ups, sit ups, you know the thing, its my chess tactics workout routine, good for the mind and good for the body.

Talking of chess, why aren't you entered for the 2013 Championship?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
i understand why you are not interested in someone else thinks about the data. but if thats how you feel why offer the opinions of the texas university staff to me, what was the purpose?


sorry, there was one other thing i forgot to mention in my last post.

you mentioned that the study was comparing heto couples with homo couples. this is incorre ...[text shortened]... y 1/4 live with their parents.

off out to pre-school, will dig out the data when i get back.

only fifty percent, oh dear, not very convincing and so you cannit say what bearing it has on the actual outcome of the study, oh dear, the study was to assess the effect on children and make a comparison, your assertion therefore that it was not, is blatantly incorrect. That they did not live with gay parent is also inconclusive, one does not need to live with a parent for it to have some kind of effect on children, indeed there could be many reasons why the did not live with their homo parents. Growing up and leaving the home when interviewed but brought up in homo home etc etc etc

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
only fifty percent, oh dear, not very convincing and so you cannit say what bearing it has on the actual outcome of the study, oh dear, the study was to assess the effect on children and make a comparison, your assertion therefore that it was not, is blatantly incorrect. That they did not live with gay parent is also inconclusive, one does not need ...[text shortened]... rents. Growing up and leaving the home when interviewed but brought up in homo home etc etc etc

blimey i dont know where to start with this post. so many false claims and some huge statistical misunderstandings.

lets start with the stats.

the study is to show the effects of gay parents.

we have 100 children from hetro-married
we have 100 children from gay-mixed marital status.

if the children in the two groups had the same upbringing in that they both had two parents and no divorce we can make a direct comparison (as long as the socio-economic backgrounds are similar).

it turns out we have

100 children from hetro married.
and
100 children with a gay parent of which at least 50% are divorced.

if divorced turns out to greatly effect the development of children that means that the data of the 100 children with gay parents is already effected before we even start. this makes it an unfair comparison.
the only way to make it fair would be to remove the 50% of children who come from divorced parents.

but the study didnt do that, it left them in, skewing the results. is this clearer?


so as for your claim that i cannot say the bearing on the outcome. firstly your wording here was unfair in misrepresenting what ive said. the bearing is that the study proves nothing.

we cannot prove anything because the divorced children data effects the non divorced gay parented childrens results as they were lumped together.

the process of lumping the data together is called 'collapsing data' which mark talks about in the paper and admits himself that its impossible to form an accurate conclusion.


the study was to assess the effect on children and make a comparison, your assertion therefore that it was not, is blatantly incorrect.

im not sure what you mean here, but ill have a go at what i think you mean.

the paper is a study trying to compare children with two straight parents and children with a gay parent.

it fails to give any clear results as we have discussed above and is in the conclusion of the paper itself.

the paper is not a comparison of the quality of parenting. from the studies done it is impossible to ascertain if gay parents are better or worse. mark himself admits he couldnt get enough data to do this but would like to in the future when there are more gay parents.

here is mark in an interview discussing his findings.

Q: So are gay parents worse than traditional parents?
A: The study is not about parenting per se. There are no doubt excellent gay parents and terrible straight parents. The study is, among other things, about outcome differences between young adults raised in households in which a parent had a same-sex relationship and those raised by their own parents in intact families. It’s not about sexual orientation

Originally posted by stellspalfie
blimey i dont know where to start with this post. so many false claims and some huge statistical misunderstandings.

lets start with the stats.

the study is to show the effects of gay parents.

we have 100 children from hetro-married
we have 100 children from gay-mixed marital status.

if the children in the two groups had the same upbringing sehold instability—but apart from longitudinal data, I’d be in a tough spot to claim causation

more speculative reasoning, iffy assertions and references to opinions, the fact of the matter is and its worth repeating,

The results reveal numerous, consistent differences, especially between the children of women who have had a lesbian relationship and those with still-married (heterosexual) biological parents. The results are typically robust in multivariate contexts as well, suggesting far greater diversity in lesbian-parent household experiences than convenience-sample studies of lesbian families have revealed

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
more speculative reasoning, iffy assertions and references to opinions, the fact of the matter is and its worth repeating,

The results reveal numerous, [b]consistent differences, especially between the children of women who have had a lesbian relationship and those with still-married (heterosexual) biological parents. The results are typicall ...[text shortened]... n-parent household experiences than convenience-sample studies of lesbian families have revealed[/b]

tell me how you know the inconsistencies are related to the parent being a lesbian and not because the child comes from a broken home?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
tell me how you know the inconsistencies are related to the parent being a lesbian and not because the child comes from a broken home?

Differences exist between children of parents who have had same-sex relationships and those with married parents

from the report.