Originally posted by Una
John 14:6 Jesus saith to him, `I am the way, and the truth, and the life, no one doth come unto the Father, if not through me;

If a Catholic does not believe in Jesus, then they will not see the Father. That does not mean the "Holy Father ...[text shortened]... Perhaps a someone of the Catholic Faith will answer here.

Una

You can read the following two documents:

The encyclical "Veritatis Splendor" ["The Splendor of the Truth"]
http://www.vatican.va/edocs/ENG0222/_INDEX.HTM

and:

"Dominus Iesus"
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html

Originally posted by Nemesio
You've posted this for a reason, Ivanhoe. Do you care to give an
exegesis?

Are you suggesting that all people must give up all their possessions,
take up 'their cross' and follow Jesus to be saved (on top of keeping
the commandments)?

Nemesio

Nemesio: "Are you suggesting that all people must give up all their possessions,
take up 'their cross' and follow Jesus to be saved (on top of keeping
the commandments)?"

One of the things the Story of the Rich Young Ruler tells us is that making a commitment, making a choice to follow Christ, is at the heart of the matter.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
making a choice to follow Christ, is at the heart of the matter.

But the heart of the matter can't be all that important if Jews, who reject Christ, still get to heaven.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
But the heart of the matter can't be all that important if Jews, who reject Christ, still get to heaven.

Do you see a difference between rejecting God and rejecting Jesus Christ from the Jewish viewpoint ?

Originally posted by ivanhoe

Do you see a difference between rejecting God and rejecting Jesus Christ from the Jewish viewpoint ?

Yes. Since Jews do not believe that Jesus is God, Jews would say that to reject Jesus is not to reject God.

Originally posted by saffa73
...I lead a good life.

I don't steal, kill, rape, swear, commit adultery etc.

I am kind, caring, sensitive and donate to charities.

When I die, I belive I will be buried and my body will rot away and that is the end.

But if there is a God, will I go to Hell because I didn't believe in him?

No the WORD clearly state that those that have not had the opportunity to come to know CHRIST, will be judged by their knowledge of right and wrong. Those that have had a chance to know that Salvation comes through JESUS CHRIST. They are judged by their acceptance or rejection of the Salvation that CHRIST offers to all mankind.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Yes. Since Jews do not believe that Jesus is God, Jews would say that to reject Jesus is not to reject God.

Exactly. Going to hell is a logical consequense of rejecting God 100%, meaning wanting to be seperated from Him, meaning not wanting to spend any time in His presence.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
I am doing my best to establish a Spirituality Forum reference for answering these sorts of questions. Please see my thread "The Heaven or Hell Algorithm." Needless to say, it is a work in progress, but based on the current state of the algorithm, things aren't looking too bad for you. The Catholics, at least, tend to agree that belief in Jesus is not a necessary condition for salvation.

Yes that is some of them believe, but that is not what THE WORD OF GOD says, that they read.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
An underlying assumption of the algorithm is that Heaven and Hell perfectly partition all souls in the afterlife. Thus, if you do not go to Hell, you necessarily end up in Heaven.

While this assumption may not be in accord with all faiths represented here, it is my chosen starting point. After this algorithm is perfected, it could be incorporate ...[text shortened]... all to be managed by a meta-algorithm that decides which of the sub-algorithms shall be invoked.

Without accepting the Salvation that comes through JESUS CHRIST, there is no way to Heaven.

Originally posted by blindfaith101
Without accepting the Salvation that comes through JESUS CHRIST, there is no way to Heaven.

So, ivanhoe is wrong when he says that Jews can get to heaven without accepting Jesus?

Originally posted by ivanhoe

Exactly. Going to hell is a logical consequense of rejecting God 100%, meaning wanting to be seperated from Him, meaning not wanting to spend any time in His presence.

But Jews don't want to be in the presence of that same God that you do.

You want to be in the presence of the triune God depicted in the New Testament.

Jews do not. They cannot, for they do not even believe that He exists.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
But Jews don't want to be in the presence of that same God that you do.

You want to be in the presence of the triune God depicted in the New Testament.

Jews do not. They cannot, for they do not even believe that He exists.

Remember the discussion we had about the 100% CCC God and the 99% one?

Because they reject Christ (and maybe even the Holy Spirit) as God does not mean they reject the Trinitarian God altogether.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
But the heart of the matter can't be all that important if Jews, who reject Christ, still get to heaven.

Since the death and ressurrection of JESUS CHRIST no Jew can get to heaven if they have rejected JESUS as the THE MESSIAH- THE CHRIST OF GOD.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
But Jews don't want to be in the presence of that same God that you do.

You want to be in the presence of the triune God depicted in the New Testament.

Jews do not. They cannot, for they do not even believe that He exists.

The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the God of the Old ànd the New Testament.

The Triune God decided to reveal himself. The religious jews do not accept the last part of His revelation, the New testament.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Remember the discussion we had about the 100% CCC God and the 99% one?

Because they reject Christ (and maybe even the Holy Spirit) as God does not mean they reject the Trinitarian God altogether.

To me, this does not make sense.

What are the minimal requirements of acceptance for you to find that somebody accepts the Trinitarian God?

Is it sufficient for somebody to accept a god of love for you to find that he accepts the same triune God that you do? If not, what is missing that distinguishes his god from yours?