If the Lord were to pick His top 10

Originally posted by KellyJay
If the Lord Jesus were to pick His top 10 topics He would like us to discuss
and get right what do you think they would be?

1. What conceivable purpose could torturing anyone for all eternity possibly serve? Discuss.

2. If you think eternal torment exists, then doesn't that make God the most evil thing ever created in the entire history of the universe? Discuss.

3. What possible justice can there be in sentencing someone who sacrifices their life to save others, and who happens to not believe in your God, to eternal torture, but in granting eternal paradise to the most despicable sadist for a genuine deathbed conversion? Discuss.

4. Rather than look at a handful of words written in a language you don't understand and written thousands of years ago, would it not be better to look into your heart as to whether this is compatible with a loving God? Discuss.

5. How can eternal damnation be a justifiable outcome for simple non-belief in God when belief is not a choice? Discuss.

6. If you really believe in eternal damnation simply for non-belief in God, why the hell would you be wasting even a second's precious time swapping pleasantries with people on a chess website, many of whom are going to be tortured for all eternity by the God you worship? Discuss.

7. What are you going to be doing when you reach heaven and you have to endure the knowledge of billions upon billions of people being tortured for all eternity for committing no crime worthy of mentioning? Discuss.

8. If you die, and discover that another God is the real God, and you simply had chosen the wrong one, will you be sanguine about the fact that this other God is going to torture you for all eternity? Discuss.

9. Why do you think God, a being with the power to create a universe of hundreds of billions of galaxies, and all life therein, would be so petty as to set up eternal torture as means of enforcing his own personal adoration? Discuss.

10. Do you think that, deep down, part of you actually relishes the idea of being proved right even if this means billions of billions being tortured for all eternity. Discuss.

Originally posted by Rank outsider
1. What conceivable purpose could torturing anyone for all eternity possibly serve? Discuss.

2. If you think eternal torment exists, then doesn't that make God the most evil thing ever created in the entire history of the universe? Discuss.

3. What possible justice can there be in sentencing someone who sacrifices their life to save others, an ...[text shortened]... proved right even if this means billions of billions being tortured for all eternity. Discuss.

Eternal torture for all 10?
Not very interesting.
I guess only sonship would be interested in these.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Eternal torture for all 10?
Not very interesting.
I guess only sonship would be interested in these.

On the contrary, if you try to hold to the eternal torture doctrine, the only two reasonable conclusions are:

1 God is infinitely evil.

2 God doesn't exist.

I would have thought that, in comparison to these conclusions, all other questions of doctrine are essentially moot.

Originally posted by Rank outsider
On the contrary, if you try to hold to the eternal torture doctrine, the only two reasonable conclusions are:

1 God is infinitely evil.

2 God doesn't exist.

I would have thought that, in comparison to these conclusions, all other questions of doctrine are essentially moot.

Eternal torture is not a doctrine that I can see being taught in the Bible. It is a doctrine developed by several sects in the early Christian church to scare people into submission. Unfortunately it is still used today for that purpose by a few misguided churches.

Eternal torture is reserved for Satan, the Beast, and the False Prophet according to revelation and certainly not all people who do not please God.

I think the majority of Christians dont subscribe to that view.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I think the majority of Christians dont subscribe to that view.

Yes, but I was addressing those that do, like KellyJay.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Eternal torture for all 10?
Not very interesting.
I guess only sonship would be interested in these.

I think Rank outsider's list would be interesting to anyone who has come to realize that sonship's God figure is completely different from yours.

And his dissection of sonship's 'torturer God' theology is perhaps as astute as any I have seen here. I think the contribution is interesting given that there is a great deal of less interesting stuff on this forum that it is vying with, 🙂

Originally posted by Rajk999
Eternal torture is not a doctrine that I can see being taught in the Bible. It is a doctrine developed by several sects in the early Christian church to scare people into submission. Unfortunately it is still used today for that purpose by a few misguided churches.

Eternal torture is reserved for Satan, the Beast, and the False Prophet according to revela ...[text shortened]... people who do not please God.

I think the majority of Christians dont subscribe to that view.

I don't believe eternal torture is for anyone, not even Satan. It will just take longer for him to burn. He will be ashes too.

Originally posted by Rank outsider
1. What conceivable purpose could torturing anyone for all eternity possibly serve? Discuss.

2. If you think eternal torment exists, then doesn't that make God the most evil thing ever created in the entire history of the universe? Discuss.

3. What possible justice can there be in sentencing someone who sacrifices their life to save others, an ...[text shortened]... proved right even if this means billions of billions being tortured for all eternity. Discuss.

I'd like to nominate this post as a spirituality forum "sticky note" for all to observe before posting. Sonship especially.

Well put RO.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Eternal torture is not a doctrine that I can see being taught in the Bible. It is a doctrine developed by several sects in the early Christian church to scare people into submission. Unfortunately it is still used today for that purpose by a few misguided churches.

Eternal torture is reserved for Satan, the Beast, and the False Prophet according to revela ...[text shortened]... people who do not please God.

I think the majority of Christians dont subscribe to that view.

I think you will find that most of the Christians here, especially the American ones, do believe this teaching.

Originally posted by Rank outsider
1. What conceivable purpose could torturing anyone for all eternity possibly serve? Discuss.

2. If you think eternal torment exists, then doesn't that make God the most evil thing ever created in the entire history of the universe? Discuss.

3. What possible justice can there be in sentencing someone who sacrifices their life to save others, an ...[text shortened]... proved right even if this means billions of billions being tortured for all eternity. Discuss.

In my opinion, #4 is an excellent idea, but obviously requires an almost complete dismissal of the Bible, which for most is out of the question.

There are some 12 step groups that suggest a person should actually abandon all concepts of God and religion, if need be, and instead come up with what they call the 'God of your own understanding', which would again require you to abandon the God of the bible......if that God is in conflict with the God you feel comfortable with.
You would basically be writing your 'own bible' and filling the pages with beliefs that match a God that agrees with your soul.

Originally posted by chaney3
There are some 12 step groups that suggest a person should actually abandon all concepts of God and religion, if need be, and instead come up with what they call the 'God of your own understanding', which would again require you to abandon the God of the bible......if that God is in conflict with the God you feel comfortable with.

What does it matter if people do? Just because people happen to take down the pre-packaged "answers" from a retail religion's shelf and subscribe to it just means that they are settling for a "God they feel comfortable with".

The function of beliefs in supernatural things like divine beings, "sins", and an afterlife, is to provide comfort and consolation, to help the believer come to terms with the inevitability of death, and perhaps a sense of meaning and purpose.

Whether people make up their own superstitions or adopt somebody else's doesn't really matter all that much in the final analysis, at least to my way of thinking.

Originally posted by FMF
What does it matter if people do? Just because people happen to take down the pre-packaged "answers" from a retail religion's shelf and subscribe to it just means that they are settling for a "God they feel comfortable with".

The function of beliefs in supernatural things like divine beings, "sins", and an afterlife, is to provide comfort and consolation, to ...[text shortened]... lse's doesn't really matter all that much in the final analysis, at least to my way of thinking.

I don't agree. If a person was, from childhood, never given a bible to read and never went to church, nor had a parent or priest 'tell' them who God is....and who also was never given a description of God's character....through the only way you can....the bible, that child would most likely grow up thinking that 'something' may be out there.....and it's also likely his 'God' would not resemble the 'bible God'.

I have said before that it could be the fault of the bible for creating a God that may not match what a person would come up with on their own. And their 'version' of God would likely exclude....angry, jealous, demanding and vengeful.

Originally posted by Rank outsider to KellyJay about the 'torturer God' theology
Do you think that, deep down, part of you actually relishes the idea of being proved right even if this means billions of billions being tortured for all eternity. Discuss.

sonship has of course admitted that it makes his "Christian life easier" to know that his "enemies" will be tortured for eternity.

Originally posted by chaney3
I have said before that it could be the fault of the bible for creating a God that may not match what a person would come up with on their own. And their 'version' of God would likely exclude....angry, jealous, demanding and vengeful.

Like I said, whether someone is a Muslim or a Christian (of the liberal or firebrand variety) or a Hindu or whatever, or whether they just make up their own superstitions and divinities and reasons for behaving how they do, it is all about consolation (psychology) and culture (anthropology).

If you are trying to crowbar yourself into Christian beliefs that you don't really want to subscribe to or are counter-intuitive, you are on a fool's errand to my way of thinking. Most retail religions may well be wondrous manifestations of human ingenuity, social order and imagination, and may deserve to be studied in depth, but they are - at their very essence - curiosity-ending and spirituality-restricting dogmas that people simply settle for.

Originally posted by FMF
Like I said, whether someone is a Muslim or a Christian (of the liberal or firebrand variety) or a Hindu or whatever, or whether they just make up their own superstitions and divinities and reasons for behaving how they do, it is all about consolation (psychology) and culture (anthropology).

If you are trying to crowbar yourself into Christian beliefs that y ...[text shortened]... ry essence - curiosity-ending and spirituality-restricting dogmas that people simply settle for.

This goes back to the 'Creator' question I asked you in a different thread.
I believe in a Creator based on my OWN evidence.....and it's not for any consolation or comfort....I just think things, and humans were created. And that is a 'neutral Creator', which has no personality or character...yet. The issue is attaching morals, character and personality to this Creator, which has been done in all religions....as you said....and then trying to make sense of the outcome. For Christianity, as an example only, the Creator is the God and or Jesus from the bible.....and I personally struggle with the attributes given to them.
When it was suggested to have a God of my own understanding, it wouldn't neccesarily be for comfort, but to simply try and match a character I can digest to the already present Creator.
Again, I'm specifically commenting on point #4.