Originally posted by ale1552
My pearls are not real so does that make a difference? Or are you suggesting that my gold wedding ring is not modest? I think that Paul himeself....if living today....would say, "Good grief", stop straining at gnats and swallowing camels!" But, let us not quarrel on these fine points. I am a Christian and so are you. Peace.

Paul is saying that you should not adorn your self with anything but simple humble clothes. I think the idea is not to draw attention to yourself. He is not saying dont wear a wedding ring. I know many people who go to church on Sunday morning simply to show off their latest clothes, shoes and jewelry. So Paul's point is dont allow the personal adornments to become more important than the worship.

If you are swallowing camels then by all means ignore the gnats for the time being and deal with the camels. But if you are not swallowing camels then you should be in a position to eliminate the gnats.

Even Christians can discuss issues without quarrelling ... agreed ? 🙂

Originally posted by Rajk999
Paul is saying that you should not adorn your self with anything but simple humble clothes. I think the idea is not to draw attention to yourself. He is not saying dont wear a wedding ring. I know many people who go to church on Sunday morning simply to show off their latest clothes, shoes and jewelry. So Paul's point is dont allow the personal adornments to ...[text shortened]... eliminate the gnats.

Even Christians can discuss issues without quarrelling ... agreed ? 🙂

Agreed! We attended a small church after moving to this area that had the same denominational name as the one we had attended before our move.. We were getting along fine, even though it was not of the same background as our old one, until our mature pastor was replaced by one just fresh from seminary. He said that anyone who did not agree on the fine points of doctrine with us who belonged to other denominations was lost. We finally voted him out but lost half of our congregation first. I know it is important to live by the Scriptures to the best of our ability, but our salvation is not based on obeying every detail. I know that I have been guilty of legalism in some areas but as I mature I have a kinder attitude to those who do not agree with me.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Can you quote the part of the Bible that says you wont be judged?

Here are 2 passages that say everyone will be judged :

Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books w ...[text shortened]... dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

What I meant was you won't end up in hell.

Originally posted by chappy1
What I meant was you won't end up in hell.

So you meant this :

"... You have to believe that Jesus Christ is your savior and he died for your sins and then repent and then you won't end up in hell... "

The prisons are full of murderers, child molesters, drugpushers, rapists, etc etc who have at some point done exactly that.... accepted Christ and repented. Will they escape punishment ?

Originally posted by ale1552
Agreed! We attended a small church after moving to this area that had the same denominational name as the one we had attended before our move.. We were getting along fine, even though it was not of the same background as our old one, until our mature pastor was replaced by one just fresh from seminary. He said that anyone who did not agree on the fine poi ...[text shortened]... alism in some areas but as I mature I have a kinder attitude to those who do not agree with me.

I see. Its important to live by the teachings of Christ and Paul, not all of the scriptures. Salvation is based on what Christ said .. after you are baptised you live a life of good works.

What kind of fine point of doctrine is the pastor referring to ? A pastor who calls members of his congregation lost for minor differences does not have the spirit of Christ in him.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I see. Its important to live by the teachings of Christ and Paul, not all of the scriptures. Salvation is based on what Christ said .. after you are baptised you live a life of good works.

What kind of fine point of doctrine is the pastor referring to ? A pastor who calls members of his congregation lost for minor differences does not have the spirit of Christ in him.

No, no. You did not read that closely....or perhaps I was a bit obtuse. He was talking about other denominations. It was over Arminianism versus Calvinism.

Originally posted by ale1552
No, no. You did not read that closely....or perhaps I was a bit obtuse. He was talking about other denominations. It was over Arminianism versus Calvinism.

Ok .. so when Christ comes to judge and " ...the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.... " do you think Arminianism versus Calvinism is going to matter?

So which denomination are you ?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Ok .. so when Christ comes to judge and " ...the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.... " do you think Arminianism versus Calvinism is going to matter?

So which denomination are you ?

Now you are accusing me of the very thing I was complaining about! Do you love to put people down so much that you do not digest what they are saying? I have belonged to churches that are Calvinistic and Arminian. No matter which one I say I believe in, you are ready to pounce, aren't you? I accept my brothers and sisters in Christ as fellow believers even if they differ on this point. Please....desist.

Originally posted by ale1552
Now you are accusing me of the very thing I was complaining about! Do you love to put people down so much that you do not digest what they are saying? I have belonged to churches that are Calvinistic and Arminian. No matter which one I say I believe in, you are ready to pounce, aren't you? I accept my brothers and sisters in Christ as fellow believers even if they differ on this point. Please....desist.

I am not putting you down and not accusing you of anything.
Im just asking which one do you believe in, or if you think that matters. Simple.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I am not putting you down and not accusing you of anything.
Im just asking which one do you believe in, or if you think that matters. Simple.

I think that neither doctrine is the determining factor. The belief that one can lose their salvation is not going to condemn them to hell. The belief that one's salvation is secure is not going to condemn them to hell. That is not the criteria for salvation. So I can fellowship with those of either persuasion. How about you? You have not told me what you believe and what denomination you are in, nor do I care to know, frankly. You are making me think that you are a legalistic who is out on a witch hunt. By the way, I am probably older than your grandmother, so take it easy on me.

Originally posted by Rajk999
So you meant this :

"... You have to believe that Jesus Christ is your savior and he died for your sins and then repent and then you won't end up in hell... "

The prisons are full of murderers, child molesters, drugpushers, rapists, etc etc who have at some point done exactly that.... accepted Christ and repented. Will they escape punishment ?

yes if they've received Jesus as their savior

Originally posted by chappy1
yes if they've received Jesus as their savior

So a Christian that has accepted Christ today, can tomorrow kill and do what he likes and escape punishment.

Originally posted by ale1552
I think that neither doctrine is the determining factor. The belief that one can lose their salvation is not going to condemn them to hell. The belief that one's salvation is secure is not going to condemn them to hell. That is not the criteria for salvation. So I can fellowship with those of either persuasion. How about you? You have not told me what you ...[text shortened]... on a witch hunt. By the way, I am probably older than your grandmother, so take it easy on me.

I dont belong to any church.
I used to be a Christadelphian 30 years ago but I have since revised my beliefs and dont follow theirs. They believed that they only had the true doctrine.

Christ is not going judge anyone on the finepoints of doctrine but on how well you have followed his commandments. In particular those that He stressed : Love God, Love your neighbour.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I dont belong to any church.
I used to be a Christadelphian 30 years ago but I have since revised my beliefs and dont follow theirs. They believed that they only had the true doctrine.

Christ is not going judge anyone on the finepoints of doctrine but on how well you have followed his commandments. In particular those that He stressed : Love God, Love your neighbour.

a Christadelphian man came to my door once, he was a Russian, young man, selling pictures of wolves and things. i asked if he played chess and he said that he used to be the school champion, so he showed me some stuff and I bought one of his pictures, which i didn't like but he looked as though he could use some cash, nice young man, we liked him, we had some coffee and played a little chess and there is another Christadelphian man near my home who I had a discussion with once, well actually he nearly indoctrinated me, knew his Bible well, I'm sure he claimed that the literal Jews were going to establish true worship in Israel, kept siting Romans eleven i think, was interesting if a little unproductive.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
a Christadelphian man came to my door once, he was a Russian, young man, selling pictures of wolves and things. i asked if he played chess and he said that he used to be the school champion, so he showed me some stuff and I bought one of his pictures, which i didn't like but he looked as though he could use some cash, nice young man, we liked him, w ...[text shortened]... orship in Israel, kept siting Romans eleven i think, was interesting if a little unproductive.

Interesting... I thought you were sleepy.

You have to work tomorrow and we have an interesting disucssion to continue. 🙂

Talk to you tomorrow. .. rich guy 🙂