Originally posted by twhiteheadPoint (5) and (6) should be clearer stated:
1. What do you mean by 'eternal'?
You claimed that time precedes the universe.
2. Does space precede the universe?
3. If yes to 2. why is this extension of space time not considered part of the universe?
4. If no, then is time meaningful without space?
5. Is God in time, ie does he do things according to a timeline, or is he independent of time?
...[text shortened]... elativity and the fact that God can affect any point in space contradict that to some extent?
5. Is God in time, ie (5a) does he do things according to a timeline, or (5b) is he independent of time?
Do you mean:
6. If yes to (5a), doesn't relativity and the fact that God can affect any point in space contradict that to some extent?
Or do you mean
6. If yes to (5b), doesn't relativity and the fact that God can affect any point in space contradict that to some extent?
I think if KJ can misinterprete the question, then he also will missinterprete it in order to make all of us confused, just to hide his own confusion in the matter.
Originally posted by twhitehead1. If there was anything or anyone around before the universe began
1. What do you mean by 'eternal'?
You claimed that time precedes the universe.
2. Does space precede the universe?
3. If yes to 2. why is this extension of space time not considered part of the universe?
4. If no, then is time meaningful without space?
5. Is God in time, ie does he do things according to a timeline, or is he independent of time?
...[text shortened]... elativity and the fact that God can affect any point in space contradict that to some extent?
that anything or anyone would ensure periods of time all around the
universe. If the universe started or had a beginning and what caused
the universe wasn't itself, there were periods before the beginning of
the universe where the cause was and the universe was not! So there
was a period of time before the universe began, the moment when the
universe began, and all the time after it began as it related to the
cause of the universe.
Kelly
Originally posted by twhitehead2. Do not know so I cannot answer 3 and 4.
1. What do you mean by 'eternal'?
You claimed that time precedes the universe.
2. Does space precede the universe?
3. If yes to 2. why is this extension of space time not considered part of the universe?
4. If no, then is time meaningful without space?
5. Is God in time, ie does he do things according to a timeline, or is he independent of time?
...[text shortened]... elativity and the fact that God can affect any point in space contradict that to some extent?
3. N/A
4. N/A
5. I believe God to be the author of time as He is all things, but as the
author He isn't bound by it, though He may honor it.
6. Explain your question please
I think God is everywhere in His fullness and can act in all places at
once giving His every action His full attention I'm not sure how our
theories can show His limitations.
Kelly
Originally posted by twhiteheadI'll attempt to give you some data on this one, hopefully I can find
Not so at all. Is see no reason why knowledge of a beginning should affect any other aspect of our knowledge whatsoever. Does it show that our knowledge is incomplete? Of course it does, but that has never and will never be under dispute. Even if you think you know how it all started, you don't claim to have complete knowledge of the universe and God, so ...[text shortened]... your 'best guess' despite the fact that you don't even know the name of my grandfather.
it.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayI had trouble deciphering that. Do you mean that something is eternal if it exist throughout all time?
1. If there was anything or anyone around before the universe began
that anything or anyone would ensure periods of time all around the
universe. If the universe started or had a beginning and what caused
the universe wasn't itself, there were periods before the beginning of
the universe where the cause was and the universe was not! So there
was a peri ...[text shortened]... erse began, and all the time after it began as it related to the
cause of the universe.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayBut you implied earlier that he required time in which to act. If he authored time, does that not lead back to your problem of needing time in which to 'cause' time to come about? You seem to be claiming that there are some universal rules which must be applied to everything and thus imply God, but you then do not apply the rules to God ie they are not universal rules.
5. I believe God to be the author of time as He is all things, but as the
author He isn't bound by it, though He may honor it.
Originally posted by KellyJayYet not long ago you were deducing the existence of time before the universe precisely by using apparent limitations of God. You declare that whatever caused the universe had to exist in a time prior to the universe. So apparently God is bound by cause effect rules in our timeline.
I think God is everywhere in His fullness and can act in all places at
once giving His every action His full attention I'm not sure how our
theories can show His limitations.
Kelly
Originally posted by twhiteheadIf something or someone is forever, than time is with it don't you
I had trouble deciphering that. Do you mean that something is eternal if it exist throughout all time?
think? Even a rock sitting in the ground is going through time, a
person sleeping is going through time. As soon as you have anything
eternal you have its actions or processes going through time.
Kelly
Originally posted by twhiteheadSince I believe He governs all the universal rules I'd say not, even
But you implied earlier that he required time in which to act. If he authored time, does that not lead back to your problem of needing time in which to 'cause' time to come about? You seem to be claiming that there are some universal rules which must be applied to everything and thus imply God, but you then do not apply the rules to God ie they are not universal rules.
your other dimension spilling into this one could have things about
it that didn't fall into this one if it were true, unlike your other
dimension God is Lord of all. I do believe He is bound by only one
thing(s) His nature, meaning He will not lie and so on. So I'd say that
God does have to live within some certain rules, many of which He
sets for no other reason.
Kelly
1 edit
Originally posted by twhiteheadWhy would God be bound by it, I believe He honors it to keep it pure
Yet not long ago you were deducing the existence of time before the universe precisely by using apparent limitations of God. You declare that whatever caused the universe had to exist in a time prior to the universe. So apparently God is bound by cause effect rules in our timeline.
but bound is another thing altogether. I believe His honoring it maybe
the samething as your suggesting after thinking about it, if He honors
it to keep it pure, He binds Himself to it since He is a God of order.
Kelly