Originally posted by @fmfOf course we "absorb things" from our environment. We are born here, grow here and live here. Those things we absorb here come from here, but there is that experience that comes from God, when believed, causes us to have an experience we cannot find in the natural world.
We absorb things from our human environment - family, community, culture - and that goes for you just as it goes for me. It's where beliefs about what is right and wrong come from.
Once one is born again one realizes that what is true or false, right or wrong and good or evil comes from the author of life itself.
The creator of all that exists is the God of those that trust and obey His Word. God's Word is Truth. One can't know that unless one is born again.
Originally posted by @secondsonI am not trivializing it. I have no reason to doubt it is a very real psychological experience for you and that it affects your life in real ways. As for me, I don't have any reason to think there's anything supernatural happening to you.
Yet you trivialize the "born again" experience as "some kind of supernatural process" as though it were visceral and not a genuine spiritual experience.
Originally posted by @secondsonI am well aware what your religious dogma is.
Being born again is based on the work Jesus did on the cross on our behalf.
Originally posted by @secondsonWe both absorbed ancient Hebrew and Christian mythology from our environments. It affected us in different ways. Nothing unnatural has happened to you.
Of course we "absorb things" from our environment. We are born here, grow here and live here. Those things we absorb here come from here, but there is that experience that comes from God, when believed, causes us to have an experience we cannot find in the natural world.
Originally posted by @secondsonYour personal beliefs in supernatural causality and divine law [and "sin"] aside, do you have any moral argument that suggests that homosexual sex is, in and of itself, is immoral?
The creator of all that exists is the God of those that trust and obey His Word. God's Word is Truth. One can't know that unless one is born again.
Originally posted by @secondsonI used to believe in the dogma you believe in, or something similar - Jesus, being "saved" etc. etc.. But you still subscribe to that dogma while I don't anymore. I don't subscribe to any religious dogma.
You're free to believe whatever dogma you choose, but what I've experienced is supernatural. (Spiritual)
Born again. The New birth. Jesus is my brother. He lives.
Originally posted by @secondsonDo you have any moral arguments -
Born again. The New birth. Jesus is my brother. He lives.
without resorting to your notions regarding supernatural stuff - that contend that homosexual sex is, in and of itself, immoral?
Originally posted by @fmfYes, but would you understand any of it?
Do you have any moral arguments -
without resorting to your notions regarding supernatural stuff - that contend that homosexual sex is, in and of itself, immoral?
It would be like proving the existence of God to someone that used to believe in God, but doesn't anymore. God is no longer a factor in your thought processes. For you the meaning of life has no meaning beyond your physical senses.
Without the Spirit you are quite limited to the narrowly confined limits of your dying body and its attendant faculties.
Homosexuality is a sin like murder, or rape, or thievery and any number of other crimes committed by selfish persons that have no regard for the safety and wellbeing of others.
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Originally posted by @secondsonHomosexuality is a sin like murder, or rape, or thievery and any number of other crimes committed by selfish persons that have no regard for the safety and wellbeing of others.
Yes, but would you understand any of it?
It would be like proving the existence of God to someone that used to believe in God, but doesn't anymore. God is no longer a factor in your thought processes. For you the meaning of life has no meaning beyond your physical senses.
Without the Spirit you are quite limited to the narrowly confined limits of y ...[text shortened]... crimes committed by selfish persons that have no regard for the safety and wellbeing of others.
Only to those who are homophobic like you.
Homosexuality is "committed by selfish persons that have no regard for the safety and wellbeing of others"? What blatant nonsense.
Your assertion that you do not use the Bible to create a morality based on your own selfish interpretations and definitions of it is false and your denial of what Leviticus 25:44-46 says proves it. You believe chattel slavery is wrong but deny what God clearly states there.
Your morality vis-a-vis homosexuality is rooted in homophobia.
Originally posted by @thinkofoneObviously your morality isn't rooted in the Bible.
[b]Homosexuality is a sin like murder, or rape, or thievery and any number of other crimes committed by selfish persons that have no regard for the safety and wellbeing of others.
Only to those who are homophobic like you.
Homosexuality is "committed by selfish persons that have no regard for the safety and wellbeing of others"? What blatant n ...[text shortened]... at God clearly states there.
Your morality vis-a-vis homosexuality is rooted in homophobia.[/b]
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FMF: Do you have any moral arguments - without resorting to your notions regarding supernatural stuff - that contend that homosexual sex is, in and of itself, immoral?Why not have a go?
Originally posted by @secondson
Yes, but would you understand any of it?
Originally posted by @secondsonAside from talking about "sin", do you have any moral arguments that contend that homosexual sex is, in and of itself, immoral? If you disapprove of homosexuality because of your belief in a supernatural being that has given you a divine law and you believe homosexual sex contravenes it, then I understand that. I get that. But I am asking you if you are able to offer moral arguments against homosexual sex that do not rely on notions pertaining to supernatural things.
Homosexuality is a sin like murder, or rape, or thievery and any number of other crimes committed by selfish persons that have no regard for the safety and wellbeing of others.