@avalanchethecat saidI concur with what you said here - especially when it comes to human consciousness - which is a deeply complex topic that science is still tackling in an interdisciplinary way. My own observations about human consciousness, as it happens, don't depend on references to supernatural causality, but ~ like you ~ I freely accept the possibility that I am wrong. Meanwhile, I think that 'not believing in supernatural causality' creates no moral predicament or hazard for me.
There are certainly things which suggest to me that our purely materialist view of the universe may not be the whole story, but for the most part it seems entirely reasonable to me that everything we see could have arisen without any form of guiding hand. Having said that, I freely accept the possibility that I am wrong.
@fmf saidHow would you know what would or wouldn't be a danger to you if you are talking about things you don't know?
I concur with what you said here - especially when it comes to human consciousness - which is a deeply complex topic that science is still tackling in an interdisciplinary way. My own observations about human consciousness, as it happens, don't depend on references to supernatural causality, but ~ like you ~ I freely accept the possibility that I am wrong. Meanwhile, I think that 'not believing in supernatural causality' creates no moral predicament or hazard for me.
@kellyjay saidWell, in the case of the threats that your "revealed" religion makes to non-believers or non-adherents, I don't find them credible. We can only speculate about supernatural things: same for you, same for me. Your personal beliefs about the moral hazard of not believing in the same religion as you do not create any moral imperatives for me. The same can be said for the religious beliefs of my Muslim neighbours.
How would you know what would or wouldn't be a danger to you if you are talking about things you don't know?
@kellyjay saidThere is nothing that one gains from observing the mysterious mechanics of the universe that suggests that its creator entity, if there is one, has issued any of the instructions that various "revealed" religions claim they "know" to be absolute truths.
How would you know what would or wouldn't be a danger to you if you are talking about things you don't know?
@fmf saidI asked about the unknown not things you are aware of and rejected.
Well, in the case of the threats that your "revealed" religion makes to non-believers or non-adherents, I don't find them credible. We can only speculate about supernatural things: same for you, same for me. Your personal beliefs about the moral hazard of not believing in the same religion as you do not create any moral imperatives for me. The same can be said for the religious beliefs of my Muslim neighbours.
@kellyjay saidWhat "unknown things" about the universe create moral imperatives for me?
I asked about the unknown not things you are aware of and rejected.
I think you are trying a bit too hard, KellyJay.
Am I to insincerely pretend to subscribe to every "revealed" religion, just to be on the safe side with regard to 'the unknown things I'm not aware of'?
@avalanchethecat saidI have walked up a mountain on the tundra in Alaska with a friend exploring it, thinking I was on solid ground and suddenly I was falling into a hole that the tundra had covered up. You can be in grave danger and be oblivious to it, fear or not.
While of course unknown dangers can present a hazard, there doesn't seem to be much to be gained by fearing them, wouldn't you agree?
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@kellyjay saidYes. Unknown dangers can present a hazard. A hidden hole isn't really an unknown danger though is it? Unexpected perhaps. I imagine experienced hikers in such conditions would be prepared.
I have walked up a mountain on the tundra in Alaska with a friend exploring it, thinking I was on solid ground and suddenly I was falling into a hole that the tundra had covered up. You can be in grave danger and be oblivious to it, fear or not.
@avalanchethecat saidMy point wondering around in the unfamiliar puts us in a place we cannot perceive what should be avoided or embraced. You have stated you don’t know the whole story concerning our lives and the universe we find ourselves in. You seem to have zero concern about the mystery and if you are wrong about the beginning, it could put yourself in a place unexpected and precarious.
Yes. Unknown dangers can present a hazard. A hidden hole isn't really an unknown danger though is it? Unexpected perhaps. I imagine experienced hikers in such conditions would be prepared.
@kellyjay saidI certainly don't know the whole story, and I'm pretty confident that nobody else does either. I have no concern about being wrong about these things because I am confident that if there is a god or gods, it or they are not so petty and small-minded as to punish me for failing to follow instructions given by men who claimed to be acting in his name many hundreds of years before I was born.
My point wondering around in the unfamiliar puts us in a place we cannot perceive what should be avoided or embraced. You have stated you don’t know the whole story concerning our lives and the universe we find ourselves in. You seem to have zero concern about the mystery and if you are wrong about the beginning, it could put yourself in a place unexpected and precarious.
@avalanchethecat saidWhy would you believe that to be true wouldn’t you want to communicate to the simpler so even a more educated should understand; moreover, to reach the most wouldn’t communicating at the earliest reach more?
I certainly don't know the whole story, and I'm pretty confident that nobody else does either. I have no concern about being wrong about these things because I am confident that if there is a god or gods, it or they are not so petty and small-minded as to punish me for failing to follow instructions given by men who claimed to be acting in his name many hundreds of years before I was born.