Is God Punishing America For Its Crimes?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
This is one of the dumbest threads....if God were in the punishing business to mankind, there wouldn't be a world left!
And I agree with George Bush on not signing over our soveirnty to the corrupt UN by signing the rediculous kyoto bill! This bill is pretty much, let the US pay for everything as usual...and besides there is no conclusive proof of glob ...[text shortened]... pair it, he would certainly be capable of stopping hurricanes...this is pure left wing nonsense.

The UN is probably less corupt than our own government, not that that is saying much. Kyoto wasn't us paying for other people, it was us agreeing to cut down on our CO2 production and reduce global warming for the good of ourselves and the rest of the world. Bush didn't sign it because it would hurt big business and he cares about that more than the environment. What does the corruption of the UN have to do with us agreeing to reduce the pollution WE create. There is no long term up side to polluting, only the short term benefits of campaign money for the Republicans. You should know what the Kyoto treaty was about before defending Bush's decision, think for yourself for a change. And there is tremendous REAL evidence for global warming (which is not the same thing as the very real problem of ozone depletion by the way). Not evidence from CNN, evidence from scientists who have studied it. I will believe hard data over what politicians tell me any day. And why isn't man capable of hurting the environment without being able to stop hurricanes. We can destroy much more easily than repair and apparently, crazy, brainwashed ultra conservatives like you wouldn't want to fix it anyway and would rather just deny that a problem exists. Learn the SCIENCE of it before deciding what man is and isn't capable of. How can you just claim that you don't believe something with out even considering evidence. I could declare that I don't believe we have the ability to fly. But I can see planes and see that clearly we do and look at the physics of it and understand that we can fly, instead of just closing my eyes and plugging my ears waiting for people to just land their airplanes and agree with me that flying is impossible.

Originally posted by UmbrageOfSnow
The UN is probably less corupt than our own government, not that that is saying much. Kyoto wasn't us paying for other people, it was us agreeing to cut down on our CO2 production and reduce global warming for the good of ourselves and the rest of the world. Bush didn't sign it because it would hurt big business and he cares about that more than th ...[text shortened]... ars waiting for people to just land their airplanes and agree with me that flying is impossible.

The UN... IS a very corrupt organization...the members are over 90% haters of America. And signing the Kyoto project is going to hurt America. Big business give us jobs!..even yours...and man is NOT capable of stopping global warming...and there is no evidence that it is caused by fossil fuels...only theories....and one theory is as good as the next...maybe God is baking cookies....why don't you look at the websites I posted? You are the one that doesn't think for himself!...you follow after the rhetoric...doom and gloom, hate Bush, hate Christians, hate America!...and your ignorant rhetoric is appalling, you can pretend to sound very intelligent but still be a fool.
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Originally posted by checkbaiter
The UN... IS a very corrupt organization...the members are over 90% haters of America. And signing the Kyoto project is going to hurt America. Big business give us jobs!..even yours...and man is NOT capable of stopping global warming...and there is no evidence that it is caused by fossil fuels...only theories....and one theory is as good as the next...ma ...[text shortened]... orant rhetoric is appalling, you can pretend to sound very intelligent but still be a fool.
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You, sir, are more stupid than even dj2becker. I did not think that was humanly possible, but you have done it in spades. I seriously despair for the future of the world if it is inhabited by morons of your caliber.

Originally posted by rwingett
You, sir, are more stupid than even dj2becker. I did not think that was humanly possible, but you have done it in spades. I seriously despair for the future of the world if it is inhabited by morons of your caliber.

God bless you again sir. and may he bless your friend umbrella of snow...😉

Originally posted by checkbaiter
The UN... IS a very corrupt organization...the members are over 90% haters of America. And signing the Kyoto project is going to hurt America. Big business give us jobs!..even yours...and man is NOT capable of stopping global warming...and there is no evidence that it is caused by fossil fuels...only theories....and one theory is as good as the next...ma ...[text shortened]... orant rhetoric is appalling, you can pretend to sound very intelligent but still be a fool.
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I didn't say the UN wasn't corrupt, I said we were worse, look at how many times the current administration has lied to the public. Signing the Kyoto protocol would hurt us a little economically, but it would not cost jobs, just a little extra money in smoke stack filters and more effcient vehicles.

Big business isn't the only source of jobs, my mother is a public school teacher and my father, grandfather, and great grandfather were all self employed in SMALL private businesses and farms.

We can't reverse what global warming there has been, that takes time, but we can stop adding to the problem and allow it to revert to normal. We have shown that global temperatures have been rising, and more than can be accounted for from historical cycles. We know how carbon dioxide traps in heat and that as we accumulate more, less heat escapes to space. We know that CO2 is one of the main gasses released when fossil fuels are burned.

You don't seem to understand the meaning of the word theory. Everything in science is a theory, we have observations that strongly support burning of fossil fuels as a major cause for global warming and no other evidence to say that this is not so. It isn't as good as any other idea, it is far better since it is supported by evidence. And to my knowledge there are no explainations for global warming supported by any members of the scientific comunity which do not include burning of fossil fuels other than saying it happens all the time, which has been discredited at this point.

I do think for myself. I have the word of a chemist I personally trust that CO2 does cause a lot of the global warming and anyone who has any understanding of organic chemistry can tell you that when you burn hydrocarbons, you release CO2. When the evidence points to doom and gloom, why not try to do something to stop it instead of calling it rhetoric and ignoring the problems in front of your eyes. There is no reason to think we can go on like we are and that everything will work out in the end, and every reason to try to do something about it.

I do not hate Bush, I just think he is a poor leader and that his politics are based on misunderstanding, bad ideas, and personal gain for him and his party. I have several times defended his position in some of the few areas I agree and have tried to temper the "lets just kill bush now" position.

I do not hate Christians. I hate their religion and the points of view it stands for. I hate the political manuvers of the church. I hate Bill Frist. I hate the lack of critical thinking that religions tend to favor. Many of my friends and family are christians and I certainly do not hate them and I don't hate people for what they believe. I was raised a christian and decided that I didn't like the religion and didn't believe in it despite what I had always been taught.

I certainly don't hate America. I was born here, I probably know more about this country and its government and history than you do. Some people I know actually consider me a jingoist. The problem is that people get confused. They think that America is Bush and the government that runs the country. America is the people and the ideals of democracy which the founding fathers put so much thought into and the more recent governments seem to ignore with things like the Patriot Act. I despair at America losing the respect of the rest of the world. I hate the decline of science and understanding and critical thinking in the general population in America. I hate that politicians pass all kinds of bills through under the guise of patriotism when all they do is make the government stronger and take away the freedoms of the people without anyone ever noticing.

And I am not an anarchist or a libertarian. I consider myself a constitutional conservative and a social liberal. It is your rhetoric that is ignorant. You are parroting what politicians have told you, I have facts from reliable sources which happen to make logical sense on top of that.

Originally posted by UmbrageOfSnow
I didn't say the UN wasn't corrupt, I said we were worse, look at how many times the current administration has lied to the public. Signing the Kyoto protocol would hurt us a little economically, but it would not cost jobs, just a little extra money in smoke stack filters and more effcient vehicles.

Big business isn't the only source of jobs, ...[text shortened]... told you, I have facts from reliable sources which happen to make logical sense on top of that.

Please notice the new thread on the myth of global warming...🙂

Originally posted by UmbrageOfSnow
I didn't say the UN wasn't corrupt, I said we were worse, look at how many times the current administration has lied to the public. Signing the Kyoto protocol would hurt us a little economically, but it would not cost jobs, just a little extra money in smoke stack filters and more effcient vehicles.

Big business isn't the only source of jobs, ...[text shortened]... told you, I have facts from reliable sources which happen to make logical sense on top of that.

I am sorry if I sounded defiant and offensive. But I am not a republican either, I am a registered Conservative.
I didn't say Big Business did I?...and these policies are already hurting the poor...maybe not Kyoto but the EPA.
I understand that you think you have good info on the subject, but I cannot rely on it just because a chemist is your friend. The evidence you claim has opponents going the other way too, which you fail to mention. There is much scientific data that shows it is over hyped and excaggerated. Even the so called evidence is biased.
As far as Bush, I apologize for my comments...I think he is the best of the candidates that were running...even though I don't see eye to eye on many points. Iraq is not one of them, by the way.
I love all people, especially Christians, and I also, hate certain behaviours even from Christians.

I am sorry that your beliefs changed on Christianity...they are not all the same, maybe you should explore this...I also have shifted away from "Traditional Christianity"..from what I have seen, many "check in their brain at the door" when they attend church.

I was not born here, but have been here since I was 4 years old, and love this country. I have studied American History, and is one of my favorite topics. May I recommend The Light and the Glory. by Peter Marshall and David Manuel? There are two sequals to that book, which begins with the persecution of Christians in England. They opposed Traditional Christianity too...then continues through to the civil war...what is unique about this book is that much research went into it..they also have original copies from journals, from some of the great Americans.

I commend you on your views of passing bills under the guise of this and that, my views are identical here.
And once again please accept my apologies if it sounded like rhetoric.
God bless.........CB....

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Originally posted by UncleMick
Look at the Hurricane, it can't be co-incidence.

No. IMO H. Katrina is not "punishment" for any alleged crimes.

It does serve as a useful reminder, though, that we all live in the same world.

Some people just know God does not exist in the same way some people know 'he' does, for reasons personal to them, neither will ever be proved although science is doing well in disproving mirracles ect.
If you believe in something it becomes real to you.
I dont belive in God but I know their will be muslim and others praising Allah/God for punishing America.

Originally posted by jay777
Some people just know God does not exist in the same way some people know 'he' does, for reasons personal to them, neither will ever be proved although science is doing well in disproving mirracles ect.
If you believe in something it becomes real to you.
I dont belive in God but I know their will be muslim and others praising Allah/God for punishing America.

Just because you believe its real, doesn't mean it IS real.

Originally posted by rwingett
Just because you believe its real, doesn't mean it IS real.

Just because you don't believe its real, doesn't mean it isn't.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Just because you don't believe its real, doesn't mean it isn't.

That is correct. But if you want me to believe something of that magnitude, then I'm going to need more than just your word on it.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
...and there is no evidence that Global Warming is caused by fossil fuels...maybe God is baking cookies....your ignorant rhetoric is appalling, you can pretend to sound very intelligent but still be a fool.
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If it's just God baking cookies, we can only hope he will require a scattering of nuts like yourself...

Originally posted by UncleMick
Look at the Hurricane, it can't be co-incidence.

yes