Is it a sin to have sex?

Originally posted by josephw
Your world view is narrow. And since you are unable to be polite and need to resort to name calling I will now ignore you.

I know that there are those in this forum who are interested in debating the issues objectively and intelligently and without hypocrisy.

I will confess though, that at times I am patronising.

You know very little about me or my world view.

When you suggest I need to learn more to get a broader perspective you are insulting my intelligence and now you have the gall to complain about some name calling.

Ignoring other opinions is what you people do best, stick with what you're good at

Originally posted by aardvarkhome
You know very little about me or my world view.

When you suggest I need to learn more to get a broader perspective you are insulting my intelligence and now you have the gall to complain about some name calling.

Ignoring other opinions is what you people do best, stick with what you're good at

I like your nick.

Originally posted by twhitehead
It is unreasonable to suggest that sex is solely for the purpose of reproduction.

It is not unreasonable to state an opinion based on the knowledge you have - it is only unreasonable if you are closed to studying and testing your opinions. It is also unreasonable to rule someone out without trying to give them proof of why they may be wrong, which is what some of you do all too often by stating "witty" but unimportant phrases.

Originally posted by josephw
Your world view is narrow. And since you are unable to be polite and need to resort to name calling I will now ignore you.

I know that there are those in this forum who are interested in debating the issues objectively and intelligently and without hypocrisy.

I will confess though, that at times I am patronising.

He's only resorting to 'name calling' out of frustration. Very often the stubborn dogma we are confronted with by literal Christians makes any constructive debate impossible.

For example Ass...er, Acemasters assertion that Hell is literally and physically at the center of the Earth is undebatable. Not because he's right, but, because he won't budge from his position. To further frustrate the matter, he refuses to point to any evidence to support his outlandish claim. Instead, he sites scripture and accuses me of not doing my research. This approach to 'debate' is infuriating and leads to hostility. Quite simply, you cannot assert that something is true to prove that it is true. This kind of circular reasoning comes up again and again to my unending frustration.

Do you see why this is frustrating and that the response becomes hostile over time? Rather than truly exploring human spirituality and the nature of God I get mindless and repeatative dogma. This has served to drive me away from organized religion rather than pull me towards it. It is my humble belief that this is the exact opposite of what Christians are tasked by God to do.

Finally, quoting the old testament as the Truth is a dangerous proposition. God sent his son Jesus to Earth to show humanity the one true way to Heaven/God. The only true way is supposed to be through Jesus Christ. Jesus asked, very simply that we believe in God, accept that He has died for our sins and be good to each other. Jesus/God's prescence on Earth supplants the Old Testament and all the drivel therein. Christianity = Faith = Jesus not Christianity = F'd up mystical 'laws' of man and associated crap that we feel is the will of God. How dare we be so arrogant as to suppose we know the will of God. His directions were/are very simple Love Jesus, God and Each Other. Accomplish this simple task and you will be welcome in Heaven. Fail and you will left apart from God for eternity.

Anything wrong with what I've said?

Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
He's only resorting to 'name calling' out of frustration. Very often the stubborn dogma we are confronted with by literal Christians makes any constructive debate impossible.

For example Ass...er, Acemasters assertion that Hell is literally and physically at the center of the Earth is undebatable. Not because he's right, but, because he won't bud ...[text shortened]... nd you will left apart from God for eternity.

Anything wrong with what I've said?

I think that's the most coherrent thing I've ever heard you say. Why do you pretend to be a moron so much of the time?

Originally posted by Starrman
I think that's the most coherrent thing I've ever heard you say. Why do you pretend to be a moron so much of the time?

Simply because this site is a good counterpoint to the serious nature of reality. This site is an opportunity for me to me a sarcastic twit with minimal consequences attached.

Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
Simply because this site is a good counterpoint to the serious nature of reality. This site is an opportunity for me to me a sarcastic twit with minimal consequences attached.

So for every serious action here you have to go and do something like get so drunk that you puke all over a friend's leather upholstery, after breaking in to his car for warmth, since you're too inebriated to remember where your house keys are?

That explains so much.

Originally posted by Starrman
So for every serious action here you have to go and do something like get so drunk that you puke all over a friend's leather upholstery, after breaking in to his car for warmth, since you're too inebriated to remember where your house keys are?

That explains so much.

Most of that irresponsible behaviour is in my past. The worst thing I've done in the last week or so is go into a biker bar/pool hall and spend $10 on the hardwired Jukebox to play Prince's Purple Rain over and over again. Hilarious... at least to me. I try not to drink to excess anymore.

Originally posted by aardvarkhome
And the penalties for these infractions?

Usual christian barbarities?

I would like to answer your question if I may...

Josephw said “...according to the God of the Bible, who created the institution of marriage, it is a sin (it's wrong) to have sexual relations with anyone outside of that institution. It's called fornication if you are unmarried, and adultury if you are married and have sexual relations with someone who is not your spouse.”

And you asked him “And the penalties for these infractions?”

I cannot speak for josephw, but I can say for myself (because I have the same viewpoint as josephw on this issue) that I believe the penalties are the natural consequences of (what the Bible defines as) sin in our lives. I can say from experience that at the very least, having to deal with sin and the consequences of it in my life is at times unbearable, particularly the penalty of fornication. What are these penalties? Well, to share something very private and grave about myself, I had premarital sex and got pregnant…then because of the stress of not being married, having sinned etc, I wasn’t able to carry my child to full term. Will you not agree that because of sins that you have committed in the past you too have suffered? But the most serious penalty comes when you will die and be sent to Hell if you have not trusted in the Lord and His finished work on the cross. The reason Christ died was so that we would not have to suffer from the penalties of our sin (that is, the penalties of our sin after death, we still have to deal with natural consequences).

Originally posted by SharpeMother
I would like to answer your question if I may...

Josephw said “...according to the God of the Bible, who created the institution of marriage, it is a sin (it's wrong) to have sexual relations with anyone outside of that institution. It's called fornication if you are unmarried, and adultury if you are married and have sexual relations with someone wh ...[text shortened]... at is, the penalties of our sin after death, we still have to deal with natural consequences).

I sympathize with your struggles and I'm sorry you had to go through the, no doubt, horrible experience you did. However, could an equally compelling case not be made that you were not able to carry the fetus to term simply because of guilt instilled in you by your religion? After all, many many unwed mothers have children with no complications whatsoever.

I guess I'm wondering why, if the penalty for some sin is (at least in part) natural, are there sometimes no natural consequences for the same sin that somebody else has suffered grave natural consequences for?

Peace

TheSkipper.

Originally posted by GinoJ
...if you are not planning to have babies?

no, but i've found it makes it a lot better if you kinda convince yourself it is

Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
He's only resorting to 'name calling' out of frustration. Very often the stubborn dogma we are confronted with by literal Christians makes any constructive debate impossible.

For example Ass...er, Acemasters assertion that Hell is literally and physically at the center of the Earth is undebatable. Not because he's right, but, because he won't bud nd you will left apart from God for eternity.

Anything wrong with what I've said?

Interesting post there. Highly recommended reading.




Aaarrgh, three edits just to say something nice. Blah... 😞

Originally posted by stocken





Aaarrgh, three edits just to say something nice. Blah... 😞[/b]

🙄

Originally posted by GinoJ
...if you are not planning to have babies?

If you're having fun, yes, probably.

Originally posted by TheSkipper
I sympathize with your struggles and I'm sorry you had to go through the, no doubt, horrible experience you did. However, could an equally compelling case not be made that you were not able to carry the fetus to term simply because of guilt instilled in you by your religion? After all, many many unwed mothers have children with no complications whatsoev me sin that somebody else has suffered grave natural consequences for?

Peace

TheSkipper.

I have questioned that as well, but in the end God created the laws that govern the universe, including logic, our consciences, and natural consequences. I am quite certain that it was my conscience that made me feel guilty, not my religion. I am certain of this because at that time I had turned from God and my beliefs and rebelled against everything I was taught. But now you may ask how I know that God created the laws that govern the universe, and how I know there even is a God, and to this I can only say that I believe that the ultimate proof is that there has to be a creator for everything that is. So my answer to your question Skipper is this: You must first confess that there is a God before you can consent that God created the laws of the universe, which is what my proof is that God made the penalty of sin natural consequences. Does that make sense? Regarding the fact that there are unwed mothers who do not seem to have to bear any consequences of their actions, I believe it to be true that consequences always come, though some may not reap what they have sewn immediately.