Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
Shhh, nobody mention the Song of Solomon.

Play some chess.

Originally posted by josephw
It would seem on that on the surface of it you would have a case against Christians and Christianity when looking at the world from that perspective. But you would be grossly mistaken. I’m not at all sure how to respond to you, because I don’t know what, if anything, you know about history. You had better go back again and check your facts. For example, ...[text shortened]... please, don't take my words to be meant as an offense or reprimmand. That is not my intention.

Try checking leviticus for starters you patronising moron.

Give me a list of infractions that the 'good book' allows, nay requires, you to stone someone to death.

Originally posted by aardvarkhome
Try checking leviticus for starters you patronising moron.

Give me a list of infractions that the 'good book' allows, nay requires, you to stone someone to death.

Your world view is narrow. And since you are unable to be polite and need to resort to name calling I will now ignore you.

I know that there are those in this forum who are interested in debating the issues objectively and intelligently and without hypocrisy.

I will confess though, that at times I am patronising.

Originally posted by amannion


Of course, I ask this question with a glint in my eye, because I think the whole notion of denying yourself pleasures because, surely pleasure must be sinful, is idiotic and just a touch 'dark age' thinking ...

i have to agree with you on that

Originally posted by GinoJ
...if you are not planning to have babies?

You must understand the time in which the bible was written. All of the religions whose basis come from it are the only ones that push sex outside marriage being a sin.
It was a time where things were a lot different than now. There was no threat of over population. There was threat of death and rape and subjegation.
The Bible was the anwser to many things for many people in a time when life was a lot more harsh than it is now. When lawlessness was ramapant.
As with most of what is written within its pages, they were "laws" by which to live by then...Life and the world are a lot different now. I mean, seriously, how much has changed in the passed 5-6000 years?
I am sure many will flame me for this, but it is true.

Originally posted by KnightWulfe
You must understand the time in which the bible was written. All of the religions whose basis come from it are the only ones that push sex outside marriage being a sin.
It was a time where things were a lot different than now. There was no threat of over population. There was threat of death and rape and subjegation.
The Bible was the anwser to many th as changed in the passed 5-6000 years?
I am sure many will flame me for this, but it is true.

The only thing I'll flame you for is thinking that the Bible is five to six thousand years old.

Personally, I doubt that human nature has actually changed all that much in the last two to three thousand years (or five to six, for that matter). Saying that sex is intended for within marriage has as much to do with sex being part of a deeply intimate relationship as it does any of the things that you mentioned. Far from seeing sex per se as a sin, the Bible views it as a highly precious gift.

Originally posted by orfeo
The only thing I'll flame you for is thinking that the Bible is five to six thousand years old.

Personally, I doubt that human nature has actually changed all that much in the last two to three thousand years (or five to six, for that matter). Saying that sex is intended for within marriage has as much to do with sex being part of a deeply intimate relatio ...[text shortened]... mentioned. Far from seeing sex per se as a sin, the Bible views it as a highly precious gift.

The original writings in the bible started with the people who believed in YHWH, which was 5-6000 years ago. Perhaps the bible itself is not that old, but many of the OT writings are.

Originally posted by Acemaster
Right. Personally, I believe in having sex for only the purpose of having a baby. I don't believe the Bible says anything about that, but I see it as right.

Acemaster, you say that the Bible says nothing about the issue of refraining unless you are trying to have a baby, but what about the verses that say "Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband." -I Cor. 7:3, and then the verse "Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency." -I Cor. 7:5...

I believe the latter passage indicates that you should use sex for the purpose of getting physical satisfaction so as not to be tempted by the devil and what he offers - especially in this day and age where sex is everywhere and it is the easiest for a spouse to adulterate, even if just in their own mind, and this is intensified when either spouse is not getting satisfaction. Like GinoJ said, there is a lot of tension that builds up.

There are other forms of prevention if you are not ready or willing for some reason to have a child, such as counting days until the wife is ovulating and then abstaining only during that period of time, etc.

Originally posted by SharpeMother
Acemaster, you say that the Bible says nothing about the issue of refraining unless you are trying to have a baby, but what about the verses that say "Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband." -I Cor. 7:3, and then the verse "Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a ti ...[text shortened]... g days until the wife is ovulating and then abstaining only during that period of time, etc.

Just ignore Acemaster.

That's how I read forums.😵

Originally posted by GinoJ
Just ignore Acemaster.

That's how I read forums.😵

Acemaster seems to be intelligent and well-read, so I am actually only trying to debate this topic with him, in addition to bringing up a good point (and verses to back it up) for the others. No need to ignore someone who has not proven him/herself unreasonable until they become or are proven to be unreasonable. Is this what you think him to be?

Originally posted by SharpeMother
Acemaster seems to be intelligent and well-read, so I am actually only trying to debate this topic with him, in addition to bringing up a good point (and verses to back it up) for the others. No need to ignore someone who has not proven him/herself unreasonable until they become or are proven to be unreasonable. Is this what you think him to be?

It is unreasonable to suggest that sex is solely for the purpose of reproduction.

Originally posted by KnightWulfe
The original writings in the bible started with the people who believed in YHWH, which was 5-6000 years ago. Perhaps the bible itself is not that old, but many of the OT writings are.

Which bits are that old, please? As far as I'm aware even scholars that accept traditional authorship wouldn't go back that far (Moses leading the Exodus is supposed to be around 1400-1500 BC if I remember correctly), and most scholars that dispute traditional authorship make the documents YOUNGER, not older.

Originally posted by SharpeMother
Acemaster seems to be intelligent and well-read, so I am actually only trying to debate this topic with him, in addition to bringing up a good point (and verses to back it up) for the others. No need to ignore someone who has not proven him/herself unreasonable until they become or are proven to be unreasonable. Is this what you think him to be?

He is reading too much Bible.

Originally posted by SharpeMother
Acemaster, you say that the Bible says nothing about the issue of refraining unless you are trying to have a baby, but what about the verses that say "Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband." -I Cor. 7:3, and then the verse "Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a ti ...[text shortened]... g days until the wife is ovulating and then abstaining only during that period of time, etc.

Thank you! I din't know that!

Originally posted by GinoJ
He is reading too much Bible.

My last post shows that I'm not reading enough.