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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    02 May '18 13:04
    To Christians and non-Christians alike. Which book of the Bible is the least convincing?

    Yes, I know for Christians it is all the word of God, but I am curious if there are particular books of the Bible that you personally struggle with?

    I will share my own particular struggles shortly.
  2. Subscriber Rajk999
    Enjoying
    02 May '18 13:15
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    To Christians and non-Christians alike. Which book of the Bible is the least convincing?

    Yes, I know for Christians it is all the word of God, but I am curious if there are particular books of the Bible that you personally struggle with?

    I will share my own particular struggles shortly.
    The Maccabees
  3. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    02 May '18 13:28
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    To Christians and non-Christians alike. Which book of the Bible is the least convincing?

    Yes, I know for Christians it is all the word of God, but I am curious if there are particular books of the Bible that you personally struggle with?

    I will share my own particular struggles shortly.
    I wonder if any other NT book has contributed as much to Christians questioning and then abandoning their faith as the Book of Revelation has. Or perhaps it is only me amongst the ex-Christians here.

    Over the years, there have been a few Christians here on this Forum who have expressed some reservations about it, but I cannot remember who exactly.

    I've met several ex-Christians on my travels who cited Revelation as a factor in their loss of Christian beliefs as it was for me. As I recall, it was the first book of the Bible to "go" when I entered into the process that resulted in me realizing I'd lost my faith.
  4. Subscriber Suzianne
    Misfit Queen
    02 May '18 13:55
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    To Christians and non-Christians alike. Which book of the Bible is the least convincing?

    Yes, I know for Christians it is all the word of God, but I am curious if there are particular books of the Bible that you personally struggle with?

    I will share my own particular struggles shortly.
    I'm going to take your words and suggest a book that I personally struggle with, or is the "least convincing" to me personally, and only because there is nothing in the Bible that could lead to a falling away of my faith. This book simply does not speak to me, since I am not a product of the world of 3500 years ago when it was written. My education would probably place me near the top of the list back then, as far as knowing about "things known", versus "things only guessed at", and so there are things I know about the world that no one of that age knew, and so the Torah was written to appeal to those people, who simply did not know the things that I (just an average person of today) know to be true. It was just not written for me.

    This book is Genesis. I'm not even speaking of all of Genesis, either, just everything up to Abraham. Also, since I'm a Christian, I find the Mosaic Laws of Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy rather extreme. But these were laws for the Hebrews, a people of another time and another place; they do not resonate with me at all, and they were not written for me, either.

    But I have to make this clear: there is nothing in the Hebrew or Greek Bible which would lead me to disavow my faith. Even the suggestion is nothing short of ludicrous to me.
  5. 02 May '18 14:10
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    To Christians and non-Christians alike. Which book of the Bible is the least convincing?

    Yes, I know for Christians it is all the word of God, but I am curious if there are particular books of the Bible that you personally struggle with?

    I will share my own particular struggles shortly.
    The book of Job.

    One of these days I will find work.
  6. Subscriber sonship
    the corrected one.
    02 May '18 14:24
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    The Maccabees
    That's Apocryphal - a non-canonical book.

    Some Catholics would disagree.

    Here is a debate on that too.

    The Great Debate IX: Is The Apocrypha Scripture? (White vs Michuta)

    YouTube&t=4087s
  7. Subscriber Rajk999
    Enjoying
    02 May '18 14:32
    Originally posted by @whodey
    The book of Job.

    One of these days I will find work.
    God likes people with a job.
  8. Subscriber sonship
    the corrected one.
    02 May '18 14:33 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    The Maccabees
    That's Apocryphal - a non-canonical book.
  9. Subscriber Rajk999
    Enjoying
    02 May '18 14:34
    Originally posted by @sonship
    That's Apocryphal - a non-canonical book.

    Some Catholics would disagree.

    Here is a debate on that too.

    [b] The Great Debate IX: Is The Apocrypha Scripture? (White vs Michuta)


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAoNfH1rFtE&t=4087s[/b]
    Not interested in the debates of men, neither in which church approves or disapproves. The book I mentioned was in the Greek Septuagint, the bible of the Aposltes and for many centuries was included in the King James Version. It is only in the last 200 yrs or so it was removed... again by men. Men, what men say, do and think is the joy of your life, not mine
  10. Subscriber Rajk999
    Enjoying
    02 May '18 14:46
    Originally posted by @fmf
    I wonder if any other NT book has contributed as much to Christians questioning and then abandoning their faith as the Book of Revelation has. Or perhaps it is only me amongst the ex-Christians here.

    Over the years, there have been a few Christians here on this Forum who have expressed some reservations about it, but I cannot remember who exactly.

    I've ...[text shortened]... e Bible to "go" when I entered into the process that resulted in me realizing I'd lost my faith.
    Revelation is a book which nobody can accurately interpret as far as I can see. People start making interpretations and as the years go by they see that they are wrong, so its back to changing their views. All the time they proclaim that God is with them and other such nonsense.

    What Revelation does for me is to simply reinforce the already cast in stone teachings of Jesus Christ. Those who claim that they are not under the law of Christ to do good works and to live righteously due to the New Covenant or some new Dispensation or because of the Holy Spirit etc etc, are stumped by the words of Christ in Revelation. Likewise the OSAS group who think they are eternally saved are in a similar dilemma with statements from Jesus about being blotted out of the book of life if they do not mend their ways.

    Revelation starts off with Jesus's message to the churches and ends with who enters the Kingdom of God. Its the very same doctrine preached continuously throughout the writings of Christ and the Apostles... good works and righteousness is the route to the New Jerusalem. Only a false Christian would think otherwise.
  11. Subscriber sonship
    the corrected one.
    02 May '18 14:51 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    Not interested in the debates of men, neither in which church approves or disapproves. The book I mentioned was in the Greek Septuagint, the bible of the Aposltes and for many centuries was included in the King James Version. It is only in the last 200 yrs or so it was removed... again by men. Men, what men say, do and think is the joy of your life, not mine
    Yea, yea, you don't listen to "men."
    But you sure want all "men" to listen to one man - YOU.
  12. Subscriber sonship
    the corrected one.
    02 May '18 14:55 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    Revelation is a book which nobody can accurately interpret as far as I can see. People start making interpretations and as the years go by they see that they are wrong, so its back to changing their views. All the time they proclaim that God is with them and other such nonsense.

    What Revelation does for me is to simply reinforce the already cast in stone ...[text shortened]... d righteousness is the route to the New Jerusalem. Only a false Christian would think otherwise.
    Why not say it starts with entering into the kingdom of God? You don't know much.

    "I John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulations and KINGDOM and endurance in Jesus, was on the island called Patmoss because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus." (Rev. 1:9)


    You don't know much.
    What you have is rather warped.

    PS. please stay out of my thread on Questions on Revelation.
  13. Subscriber Rajk999
    Enjoying
    02 May '18 14:56
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Yea, yea, you don't listen to "men."
    But you sure want all "men" to listen to [b]one
    man - YOU.[/b]
    If that is what you think then you are as dense as a doorknob. Even people with no interest in religion or Christianity can see that I quote directly from what Jesus and the Apostles preach. Never once have I quoted the writings of men or churches, neither have I ever presented my own opinions, unless the bible silent on that topic.

    When Jesus and the Apostles speak, I repeat it. Unlike you.
  14. Subscriber sonship
    the corrected one.
    02 May '18 14:59
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    If that is what you think then you are as dense as a doorknob. Even people with no interest in religion or Christianity can see that I quote directly from what Jesus and the Apostles preach. Never once have I quoted the writings of men or churches, neither have I ever presented my own opinions, unless the bible silent on that topic.

    When Jesus and the Apostles speak, I repeat it. Unlike you.
    Think what you need to think.

    Please stay out and away from my thread on Taking Questions on Revelation.
  15. Subscriber Rajk999
    Enjoying
    02 May '18 15:09
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Think what you need to think.

    Please stay out and away from my thread on Taking Questions on Revelation.
    You cannot handle the heat. You are accustomed to having your little meetings where you can boss around others who have no opinion and all they do is nod in approval ...