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10 May 18
Originally posted by @fmfHow were you a Christian for 40 years and one who read the Bible several times before you realized you had trouble with Revelation? Didn’t Revelation strike you as fantastically unbelievable and starkly inconsistent with the rest of the New Testament the first or second time you read it?
Bogus origin. Someone wrote down his "vision"? Sure.
Tacked on late in the day. How long had Jesus been dead? 50 or 60 years?
Deliberately opaque and given to divisive, competing interpretations.
Totally pretentious and portentous, unlike Jesus as portrayed elsewhere in the NT.
It takes the plain-spoken clear man-in-the-street message typical of ...[text shortened]... r me (and others I have met and discussed it with) and, I suppose, was the beginning of the end.
Originally posted by @fmfSure, but excluding those thousands of references, you have never spoken about it.
What's more, the myriad of reasons why I no longer have Christian faith have been pretty obvious and expressed and illustrated in detail thanks to the specific content of issues raised in about 25,000 of my posts on this forum, day in day out, thread after thread, for more than a decade.
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Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeThousands? I’ve only been here a few months but Becker, who’s been here much longer, seems in the dark about FMF’s journey from believer to atheist as well.
Sure, but excluding those thousands of references, you have never spoken about it.
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10 May 18
Originally posted by @divegeesterStill claiming I’m Becker?
Casual dishonesty™
Give it a rest, tiger, or no more PB&J sandwiches with the crusts cut off for you.
11 May 18
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeI haven't responded to this because it seems rather straightforward. I have no questions about it and frankly I cannot see why any more details are needed. It is what it is.
I'm a little surprised more Christian's haven't responded to this explanation by you about your loss of Christian faith. Perhaps they'd just prefer to go on pretending you had avoided addressing the issue.
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11 May 18
Originally posted by @suzianneIt’s odd that it took 30-40 years and multiple readings of the Bible before he began to question Revelation. If that doesn’t strike you as a strange book right off the bat, something’s amiss.
I haven't responded to this because it seems rather straightforward. I have no questions about it and frankly I cannot see why any more details are needed. It is what it is.
Watched part of a documentary on Billy Graham after he died and he had a crisis of faith based (I believe) on the Bible itself. But Graham said he reconciled it by placing his complete faith in the Bible and telling God he was going to do so.
I believe there are parts of the Bible that speak to Jesus’ manner in the Gospels as being much different than His manner will be when He returns. He came to earth to save sinners. Next time, His purpose, as I understand it, will be quite different. I mention this because Revelation, as I understand it, concerns the latter and Jesus is in His glory in Revelation.
11 May 18
Originally posted by @romans1009Yes, I believe that Jesus will return as the "warrior-messiah" the Jews were expecting the first time.
It’s odd that it took 30-40 years and multiple readings of the Bible before he began to question Revelation. If that doesn’t strike you as a strange book right off the bat, something’s amiss.
Watched part of a documentary on Billy Graham after he died and he had a crisis of faith based (I believe) on the Bible itself. But Graham said he reconciled it ...[text shortened]... use Revelation, as I understand it, concerns the latter and Jesus is in His glory in Revelation.
As regards FMF, he can believe what he wants -- it's his life, after all. Neither you nor I will change his mind, just as he will not change ours.
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11 May 18
Originally posted by @suzianneI’m not interested in changing his mind. I just find what little I know of his transition from believer to atheist to be puzzling, especially because he previously said he read the Bible in toto multiple times when he was a Christian and apparently wasn’t puzzled or concerned by Revelation until much later.
Yes, I believe that Jesus will return as the "warrior-messiah" the Jews were expecting the first time.
As regards FMF, he can believe what he wants -- it's his life, after all. Neither you nor I will change his mind, just as he will not change ours.
11 May 18
Originally posted by @romans1009I can't speak to that, you'll have to ask him.
I’m not interested in changing his mind. I just find what little I know of his transition from believer to atheist to be puzzling, especially because he previously said he read the Bible in toto multiple times when he was a Christian and apparently wasn’t puzzled or concerned by Revelation until much later.
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeNo, it wasn't that.
I find it interesting that you are able to identify a specific book of the Bible [~The Book of Revelation~] that was 'the first to go' when you lost your faith and was actually a factor in the loss of your Christian beliefs. Was it a bit like a bad and unbelievable ending ruining a potentially good book?
With Revelation, it wasn't so much an ideological objection initially.
The big question mark that arose for me was over its authorship, how the book came into being, whether that was a credible source, and why it was in the Bible.
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Originally posted by @fmfJohn the Apostle is the author of Revelation. The book came into being after he had a vision and wrote it. John the Apostle is a credible source. It was included in the Bible because it passed the legitimacy criteria that have been cited several times in the SF.
No, it wasn't that.
With Revelation, it wasn't so much an ideological objection initially.
The big question mark that arose for me was over its authorship, how the book came into being, whether that was a credible source, and why it was in the Bible.