Is Jesus too liberal for Republicans?

@vivify said
No matter how heated our debates get I am relieved that there are Christians who denounce members of their faith who think like him.

There's no worse kind of hypocrite than a religious hypocrite.

@vivify said
What an incredibly false and ignorant statement. Christianity is responsible for some of the worst humanitarian travesties in history. The sheer scale of torture and murder caused by organized Christianity is unparalleled. There are still people alive today who have witnessed white supremacist Christians lynch blacks.

You live in this bubble where 100 percent of your i ...[text shortened]... out how wonderful Christianity is.

Christianity has drastically affected the world for the worst.

I would counter that Christianity itself is not the culprit. Many people adhere to Jesus' teachings and make the world (or at least their corner of it) a better place.

The ones who use Christianity to worm their way into people's good graces then hurt them are the lowest of the low. The Crusades, for example. Pope Urban used believers to attack Islam and its believers and came away from the Holy lands with riches so that he could sell people indulgences. No brownie points for that guy. I'm willing to bet Jesus never knew him, either.

I try to identify these people when I speak about them here by calling them "Christians". Certainly not actual Jesus-following Christians. Same with the KKK. They called themselves Christians too. It's the users, not actual Christians, that give Christianity a bad name. In fact, Jesus said that it would be better for these people if they had never lived.

@suzianne said
And yet the adultress Jesus saved from stoning is.


Still time to get yourself straight. Open your eyes.

You get yourself straight., and open your eyes. The important part of that is that Jesus also said to that woman .. go, and sin no more. (John 8:11 KJV)

You tell people that it is ok to be LGBQT.. and continue with sin. You are part of the Sodom society that is going to face destruction. Go, and sin no more
Got that?

@josephw said

Rajk's penchant for making false claims about what the Bible says is historic i

Name one false claim.

@josephw said
You're deceived by a false narrative.

"Christians" are by far the most persecuted, to the death, group of people on the planet.

Take off the blinders.

Do you make any distinction between Christians and false "Christians"?

I'm not sure Christians are the MOST persecuted. Not in the US anyways. Usually that is whatever group falls out of favor with the "Christians". Minorities, women, gays, trans now, the poor, the homeless. You know the drill.

@rajk999 said
You get yourself straight., and open your eyes. The important part of that is that Jesus also said to that woman .. go, and sin no more. (John 8:11 KJV)

You tell people that it is ok to be LGBQT.. and continue with sin. You are part of the Sodom society that is going to face destruction. Go, and sin no more
Got that?

Someone needs to remind you that you are not Jesus.

In fact, Jesus had some advice for you that you never follow.

@suzianne said
Someone needs to remind you that you are not Jesus.

Idiot, were you not just quoting Jesus?
Why are you misquoting Jesus ?

@rajk999 said
Idiot, were you not just quoting Jesus?
Why are you misquoting Jesus ?

Quote my misquote.

Go ahead, don't be shy.

@suzianne said
I would counter that Christianity itself is not the culprit. Many people adhere to Jesus' teachings and make the world (or at least their corner of it) a better place.

The ones who use Christianity to worm their way into people's good graces then hurt them are the lowest of the low. The Crusades, for example. Pope Urban used believers to attack Islam and its bel ...[text shortened]... y a bad name. In fact, Jesus said that it would be better for these people if they had never lived.

I'm sure you're well aware of biblical texts calling for gays to be stoned or women to submit to their husbands "in all subjection". Just because you've chosen to ignore a literal interpretation doesn't change that.

There's a lot of good in the Bible, but as as Jesus himself said:

"Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Christianity has borne far more bad fruit than good. And by its fruit you can know Christianity.

@josephw said
There's no worse kind of hypocrite than a religious hypocrite.

If Christians were more like you and Suzianne the world would actually be a better place to live.

Well...

“What was alarming to me is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, ‘I’m literally quoting Jesus Christ,’ the response would not be, ‘I apologize.’ The response would be, ‘Yes, but that doesn’t work anymore. That’s weak,’” Moore said. “When we get to the point where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we’re in a crisis.”

What is interesting about this is that liberal Christians will literally embrace homosexuality in spite of the fact that it is condemned directly by St. Paul, and was also condemned very directly in the Old Testament...

When pressed about it, they will talk about how the times have changed..!

So there is always going to be some degree of hypocrisy on both sides, IMO.

I also assume that Moore is not presenting his opponents in the most charitable light. He provides us of no actual person really saying that Christ is wrong about that, or that turning the other cheek is outdated.

He just throws that out there and we are supposed to believe that <people who bother him for being liberal> are <that stupid> in his <very convenient portrayal.>

@vivify said
If Christians were more like you and Suzianne the world would actually be a better place to live.

I get why you might align with Suzianne's brand of Christianity because of the progressive stances you share, but do you REALLY wish there were more Christians like josephw and that it would "make the world a better place"? Have you not been reading his posts over the last decade?

@vivify said
I'm sure you're well aware of biblical texts calling for gays to be stoned or women to submit to their husbands "in all subjection". Just because you've chosen to ignore a literal interpretation doesn't change that.

There's a lot of good in the Bible, but as as Jesus himself said:

[i]"Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A goo ...[text shortened]...

Christianity has borne far more bad fruit than good. And by its fruit you can know Christianity.

However, all the nastyness of the OT is not Christianity.

By definition Christianity is the religion accepting Jesus as their Savior and lifeline to God. Gentile Christians have no bank with the OT, except insofar as it represents a history of the Jewish people who came before, who later introduced Christianity (or the new Judaism, as the first founders of the faith were Jews) to the world.

Is your criticism really a criticism of Judaism?

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." -- Matthew 7:15-20, KJV

Jesus was talking about individual people, not all Christians, and certainly not all Christianity. Because the evil which besets Christianity is the evil of individual people.

I say again, Christianity itself cannot be blamed for the evil of individual people who have used it as cover for their misdeeds. Christianity, at its heart, has given untold numbers of people purpose and hope, including me. It strives to help the downtrodden, to house and feed the poor, to strengthen the weak and to provide ministry to those incarcerated. I say there is far more good done in the world by Christianity than evil done by those few wishing to use the church for their own ends.

@philokalia said
Well...

[quote]“What was alarming to me is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, ‘I’m literally quoting Jesus Christ,’ the response would not be, ‘I apologize.’ The response would be, ‘Yes, but that doesn’t work anymore. That’s weak,’” Moore said. “When we get to the point where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we’r ...[text shortened]... that <people who bother him for being liberal> are <that stupid> in his <very convenient portrayal.>

Women were also condemned by Paul. Are women a sin?

@suzianne said
However, all the nastyness of the OT is not Christianity.

The wives submitting "in all subjection" comes from the NT. So does the bit about gays not inheriting kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9).

I say again, Christianity itself cannot be blamed for the evil of individual people who have used it as cover for their misdeeds. Christianity, at its heart, has given untold numbers of people purpose and hope, including me. It strives to help the downtrodden, to house and feed the poor, to strengthen the weak and to provide ministry to those incarcerated.

At one time the Republican party was the party of social change, as when they ended slavery in the U.S. and helped advance women's rights. As you know, this is no longer the case.

We hear all the time about the Republican are for "small government", "fiscal responsibility", etc. But their actions constantly show otherwise.

I'm sure there may still be some Republicans who hold on to Lincoln's ideals or may say "you can't blame the party for what Republicans do". There may be Republicans who say Trump is not the party's fault because their "actual beliefs are...."

The truth is you can and should blame the Republican party regardless of the stated ideals actually are. Likewise with Christianity; regardless of what the religion actually says their followers have made life worse for humanity and have done so for centuries. It's evangelical Christians who got Trump in office and it's Christians who overturned Roe V. Wade. A Christian Justice, Thomas, publicly called for gay marriage to be overturned.

No matter what Jesus' words actually are this is the reality of Christianity. Christianity, like the Republican party, has changed and became the opposite of the morals they once held.