Is poor good and rich bad?

In the time I've been posting on this forum, this type scenario has been played out time and time again.

Fundamentalist Christian is unable to reconcile his "faith" with the facts.

Fundamentalist Christian avoids addressing the facts and/or is not intellectually honest in any number of ways.

Fundamentalist Christian denies it and/or blames the individual pointing out the facts (usually by lying, telling half-truths or other unscrupulous tactics).

Fundamentalist Christian feels vindicated and keeps his "faith" "intact".

If fundamentalist Christians had truth on their side, they woudn't resort to such tactics. That they do is quite telling.

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
--Gandhi

Originally posted by Rajk999
How can you determine from the Biblical account of creation, for a fact [ Im assuming here that you can distinguish fact from opinion] that the earth was created less than 10,000 years ago?

It is an estimate based upon my knowledge of the facts.
It could be a little over 10,000 years, but I believe it is a
much closer estimate than the 2 million years given by
rwingett. But of course, both of us are giving our opinions
and not pure fact.

Originally posted by RJHinds
It is an estimate based upon my knowledge of the facts.
It could be a little over 10,000 years, but I believe it is a
much closer estimate than the 2 million years given by
rwingett. But of course, both of us are giving our opinions
and not pure fact.

Do you think you know better than the countless scientists who would dispute you?

What exactly is your 'knowledge of the facts'?

Originally posted by RJHinds
It is an estimate based upon my knowledge of the facts.
It could be a little over 10,000 years, but I believe it is a
much closer estimate than the 2 million years given by
rwingett. But of course, both of us are giving our opinions
and not pure fact.

I never said the earth was created 2 million years ago. I said the genus 'homo' has been around for about 2 million years. The earth has been around for about 4.5 billion years. I can assure you that those "opinions" are on much more solid footing than yours.

Originally posted by RJHinds
It is an estimate based upon my knowledge of the facts.
It could be a little over 10,000 years, but I believe it is a
much closer estimate than the 2 million years given by
rwingett. But of course, both of us are giving our opinions
and not pure fact.

Im not too sure that you even know what facts are. You stated in another thread that the Bible stated that angels have wings. When asked you where in the Bible you got that information you could not answer, but instead waffled on and on about other things.

Im certain you are doing the same thing here.

Here are the facts from the Bible;
1. God created the heaven and the earth at some undetermined time
2. God created the sun and other 'light' sources on the first day.
3. God created land and sea etc on the second day.
4. God created trees, etc on the third day.
etc etc...

Now you can dispute what a 'day' means in the contezt of creation. Some fundamentalist creationists say its a 24 hour period. Other scholars say it coud be a thousand years, or even millions of years.

What you cannot dispute is that the heavens and the earth were already in existence when the 6 'days' of creation started. And if you are going by what the Bible said then you cannot determine when the earth was created.

Originally posted by rwingett
I never said the earth was created 2 million years ago. I said the genus 'homo' has been around for about 2 million years. The earth has been around for about 4.5 billion years. I can assure you that those "opinions" are on much more solid footing than yours.

That's laughable. Ha! Ha! Ha!

Originally posted by Rajk999
Im not too sure that you even know what facts are. You stated in another thread that the Bible stated that angels have wings. When asked you where in the Bible you got that information you could not answer, but instead waffled on and on about other things.

Im certain you are doing the same thing here.

Here are the facts from the Bible;
1. God created ...[text shortened]... you are going by what the Bible said then you cannot determine when the earth was created.

Not everything is written down in the Holy Bible. There is truth
in oral tradition too. Christians do not base all their beliefs on the
fact that it must be written down exactly word for word in the Holy
Bible to be considerere true. We use the mind God gave us to reason
with. There are living creatures God created before man and they are
generally known by the term "angel" since the first ones introduced to
man were messengers from God. Some had other names that we
were made aware of. Others were just described in some manner.
Cherubim and Seraphim are described in the Holy Bible as having
wings. From oral tradition we know that they are also called angels.
By logical reasoning then, we know that at least some angels had wings.

We do not know how old the earth is. Everyone is just giving an estimate.
But I was estimating how long man had been on the earth, not how old the
earth was.

Below is exactly what my post said:

Man was created by God no more than about 10,000 years ago.
The idea that the earth or man could be 2 million years old is
ludicrous. God intended for man to take care of the earth, but
man disobeyed God right from the start, so the 10,000 year
estimate may be close as to when he started acting contrary to
God and doing what he wanted.

I did not estimate the age of the earth other than to say it had not
been around any where near 2 million years. But rwingett says
the earth is 4.5 billion years old. So even 2 million years old would
be a young earth to him.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Below is exactly what my post said:

Man was created by God no more than about 10,000 years ago.
The idea that the earth or man could be 2 million years old is
ludicrous. God intended for man to take care of the earth, but
man disobeyed God right from the start, so the 10,000 year
estimate may be close as to when he started acting contrary to
God ...[text shortened]... the earth is 4.5 billion years old. So even 2 million years old would
be a young earth to him.

Again how do you reconcile these two statements from you -

I certainly do not preach against modern physics since it supports the Biblical view in every way that I am aware of,

and then this

I did not estimate the age of the earth other than to say it had not
been around any where near 2 million years.

You do realise that the scientific consensus tells us the earth is 4.5 billion years old?! This date was obtained using 'modern physics'.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Again how do you reconcile these two statements from you -

I certainly do not preach against modern physics since it supports the Biblical view in every way that I am aware of,

and then this

I did not estimate the age of the earth other than to say it had not
been around any where near 2 million years.

You do r ...[text shortened]... s tells us the earth is 4.5 billion years old?! This date was obtained using 'modern physics'.

What is this modern physics method that can date something
accurately to 4.5 billion year? I say you are making it up.

Originally posted by RJHinds
What is this modern physics method that can date something
accurately to 4.5 billion year? I say you are making it up.

Where have you been for the last 20 years?

http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/geotime/age.html

Originally posted by RJHinds
Not everything is written down in the Holy Bible. There is truth
in oral tradition too. Christians do not base all their beliefs on the
fact that it must be written down exactly word for word in the Holy
Bible to be considerere true. We use the mind God gave us to reason
with. There are living creatures God created before man and they are
generally ...[text shortened]... stimate.
But I was estimating how long man had been on the earth, not how old the
earth was.

The fact remains that you were wrong when you said that the Bible described angels with wings. And you are wrong now to claim that you can even estimate how old the earth is !

Oral tradition ? You are like the Scribes and Pharisees who Christ condemned.

Originally posted by Rajk999
The fact remains that you were wrong when you said that the Bible described angels with wings. And you are wrong now to claim that you can even estimate how old the earth is !

Oral tradition ? You are like the Scribes and Pharisees who Christ condemned.

Some have been describe with wings.

Isaiah 6:2
Above him stood the seraphim: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.

Ezekiel 1 also describes creatures, but I'm not sure that we could call them
angels, they too have wings.

Ezekiel 10:19
And the cherubim lifted up their wings, and mounted up from the earth in my sight when they went forth, and the wheels beside them: and they stood at the door of the east gate of Jehovah's house; and the glory of the God of Israel was over them above.

Zechariah 5:9
Then lifted I up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there came forth two women, and the wind was in their wings; now they had wings like the wings of a stork; and they lifted up the ephah between earth and heaven.

I'd say angels are describe with and without wings.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Some have been describe with wings.

Isaiah 6:2
Above him stood the seraphim: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.

Ezekiel 1 also describes creatures, but I'm not sure that we could call them
angels, they too have wings.

Ezekiel 10:19
And the cherubim lifted up phah between earth and heaven.

I'd say angels are describe with and without wings.
Kelly

You lack basic English comprehension skills. How old are you?
None of the verses you quoted described angels with wings.
And this discussion is not about what you say, or what RJHinds says or what I say. Its about what the Bible says.

Isaiah 6:2 - Seraphim with wings
Ezekiel 1 - creatures with wings
Ezekiel 10:19 - Cherubim with wings
Zechariah 5:9 - A woman with wings.

Originally posted by Rajk999
You lack basic English comprehension skills. How old are you?
None of the verses you quoted described angels with wings.
And this discussion is not about what you say, or what RJHinds says or what I say. Its about what the Bible says.

Isaiah 6:2 - Seraphim with wings
Ezekiel 1 - creatures with wings
Ezekiel 10:19 - Cherubim with wings
Zechariah 5:9 - A woman with wings.

I guess you need to do a little research and see what those creatures are.
Kelly