06 Sep 09
1 edit
Whilst the Roman Catholic Church is one of the biggest religions in the world in terms of cash and members it really does stretch Christian precepts and doctrine to the absolute ridiculous.
Transubstantiation?
Purgatory?
The Pope being the reincarnation of Peter?
The Pope being the "Vicar of Christ" i.e. in place of Christ!
Calling a priest "Father" (God is our Father)?
Repetitive words in prayer using Rosary beads as a charm?
Praying to Mary?
Mary being the mediator between man and God (again in place of Christ)?
Only the Catholic Church and specifically the Pope have the full revelation of God and his truth?
Not to mention the silly fancy dress and hierarchical separation of the laity?
I'd say the Roman Catholic Church has nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity except in name.
Your thoughts?
06 Sep 09
Originally posted by divegeesterThey believe in Jesus so I would say yes they are christian. They don't place much emphasis on the bible but I don't think that is a disqualifier. Christianity contains a whole group of christian religions. If you are asking if they are true christians and follow what christ taught then who really can say?
Whilst the Roman Catholic Church is one of the biggest religions in the world in terms of cash and members it really does stretch Christian precepts and doctrine to the absolute ridiculous.
Transubstantiation?
Purgatory?
The Pope being the reincarnation of Peter?
The Pope being the "Vicar of Christ" i.e. in place of Christ!
Calling a priest "Fat ...[text shortened]... lic Church has nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity except in name.
Your thoughts?
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06 Sep 09
Originally posted by divegeesterFirstly, your criticisms should not be directed exclusively at the Roman Catholic Church. As I have pointed out, possibly a twenty or so times before, the Orthodox Christians share many dogmas and practices with Catholics and they are not a minority that can be easily dismissed. The Orthodox churches exist in all Europe. Greece and Russia are predominantly Orthodox. Furthermore, there are some Anglicans ('high church' Anglicans) who accept the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist and retain many Catholic liturgies (and also have monasteries).
Whilst the Roman Catholic Church is one of the biggest religions in the world in terms of cash and members it really does stretch Christian precepts and doctrine to the absolute ridiculous.
Transubstantiation?
Purgatory?
The Pope being the reincarnation of Peter?
The Pope being the "Vicar of Christ" i.e. in place of Christ!
Calling a priest "Fat ...[text shortened]... lic Church has nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity except in name.
Your thoughts?
I also suggest you familiarise yourself with Catholicism before you begin to criticise. Here are some points to consider:
1 Catholics are not obliged to accept transubstantiation. Transubstantiation is only a theological explanation for the dogma of the Real Presence and Catholics are free to reject it. A Catholic need not be an Aristotlean; he is only obliged to believe that the consecrated bread and wine truly is the body and blood of Christ. This is not without scriptural authority.
2. The Pope is not the reincarnation of Peter -- he is only the successor. I don't see a problem with this.
3. Every priest acts 'in the place of Christ' in the celebration of the sacraments. It is not uniquely a papal charism.
4. Everyone calls their biological father 'Father'. I do not think that Jesus really would have challenged that and I do not see why he would challenge the use of the title 'Father' by clerics. You will find Christians all over the world also address their teacher as 'Teacher'. In British courts, a judge is also called 'lord'. Do you criticise that as well?
5. I think you are woefully confused about the rosary. This is not a 'charm'. The beads are used as a way of keeping count of prayers. Traditionally, the rosary is prayed by repeating the Hail Mary ten times, followed by an Our Father. This is repeated five times. For each ten beads, the person is to reflect on one of the mysteries of Christ and a particular gospel scene. The beads are a helpful way to keep track. There is no magic.
6. Catholics do not believe Mary to be mediator between man and Christ. Some Catholics, a minority, believe that Mary is co-redemptrix. They argue that Mary's willingness to surrender herself to God and give birth to Jesus was essential for the salvation of mankind. This however has never been declared a dogma.
7. You will find that Orthodox Christians, Anglicans and Lutherans also have special clerical garb.
06 Sep 09
1 edit
Originally posted by joe beyserIs believing in Christ the basis for Christiantiy? After all, if this were the case then Muslims, JW's, Mormons, etc would all be considered Christian. The real question is, do they follow what Christ taught first and foremost?
They believe in Jesus so I would say yes they are christian. They don't place much emphasis on the bible but I don't think that is a disqualifier. Christianity contains a whole group of christian religions. If you are asking if they are true christians and follow what christ taught then who really can say?
As for my own thoughts, anything that focuses on anything other than Christs teachings are not Christian. In other words, if the focus is the organization, a charismatic leader, a set of religious rituals, beliefs that counter what he taught, etc, it becomes a cult.
06 Sep 09
Originally posted by divegeesterI agree as they have gone so very far from the basic truths and laws of the Bible. Even one of the basic 10 commandments about idols which they seem to have more then enough in their churches.
Whilst the Roman Catholic Church is one of the biggest religions in the world in terms of cash and members it really does stretch Christian precepts and doctrine to the absolute ridiculous.
Transubstantiation?
Purgatory?
The Pope being the reincarnation of Peter?
The Pope being the "Vicar of Christ" i.e. in place of Christ!
Calling a priest "Fat ...[text shortened]... lic Church has nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity except in name.
Your thoughts?
I feel sorry for them because so many false teachings are thrown at them and so steeped in their traditions, that they don't see the basic truths in the Bible.
06 Sep 09
Originally posted by divegeesterYes.
Whilst the Roman Catholic Church is one of the biggest religions in the world in terms of cash and members it really does stretch Christian precepts and doctrine to the absolute ridiculous.
Transubstantiation?
Purgatory?
The Pope being the reincarnation of Peter?
The Pope being the "Vicar of Christ" i.e. in place of Christ!
Calling a priest "Fat ...[text shortened]... lic Church has nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity except in name.
Your thoughts?
Yes.
No.
Yes.
So is your dad both, takes the place of Christ.
Yes, No
Yes.
Mediatrix of all graces.
No.
?
06 Sep 09
Originally posted by daniel58Thank you for confirming my personal view.
Yes.
Yes.
No.
Yes.
So is your dad both, takes the place of Christ.
Yes, No
Yes.
Mediatrix of all graces.
No.
?
However, you say you don't think the Catholic Church is the bearer of all of God's revealed truth, (your "no" to the penultimate question - which incidentaly were rhetorical, but never mind).
From where does other truth come to the laity then?
06 Sep 09
Originally posted by divegeesterYour thoughts?
Whilst the Roman Catholic Church is one of the biggest religions in the world in terms of cash and members it really does stretch Christian precepts and doctrine to the absolute ridiculous.
Transubstantiation?
Purgatory?
The Pope being the reincarnation of Peter?
The Pope being the "Vicar of Christ" i.e. in place of Christ!
Calling a priest "Fat ...[text shortened]... lic Church has nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity except in name.
Your thoughts?
I think you're wrong, or you haven't understood it completely and/or you're blinded by little personal biases.
06 Sep 09
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterIt's revealed, The Bible, after counsels, at the pulpit, but wait a minute you started this and said it has nothing to do with Christianity except in name, then you said you Believe what I do?😕
Thank you for confirming my personal view.
However, you say you don't think the Catholic Church is the bearer of all of God's revealed truth, (your "no" to the penultimate question - which incidentaly were rhetorical, but never mind).
From where does other truth come to the laity then?
06 Sep 09
Originally posted by daniel58So you are saying new truth can be revealed by other people from within the Catholic organisation, other than the Pope...Who?
It's revealed, The Bible, after counsels, at the pulpit, but wait a minute you started this and said it has nothing to do with Christianity except in name, then you said you Believe what I do?😕
06 Sep 09
Originally posted by divegeesterI don't have any congition, so far as I know, but my annual physical is scheduled soon. If my doctor finds some terrible condition, you'll be the first to know.
Did you see that written on a subway wall, or did you have some congition behind the post?
The question is Roman Catholicism Christian is like asking if a cougar is a cat, or whether the chihuahua remains turning slowly over my grill used to be a dog.
Roman Catholicism, co-equal with the Eastern Orthodox churches, is the original Christian denomination. All of the Protestant denominations from the Lutherans to the Latter Day Saints emerged in doctrinal or ecclesiastical protests against the mother church, or some of her illegitimate offspring (e.g. the Episcopal Church broke away not from Rome, but from the Anglican).
If you are cognizant of history, then you know this. There's really nothing to debate.