1. SubscriberFMF
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    27 Dec '14 02:591 edit
    From another thread:

    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    "So the very reason I am glad that anyone begins to read the Bible is totally a matter of their human spirit being touched, even that the human spirit would be enlivened and regenerated..."

    sonship, "the human spirit" is acquired at the moment of salvation [a rational decision to choose for rather than against Christ] by the regeneration work [spiritual birth and imputation of eternal life] of God the Holy Spirit; it enables the believer to now understand and utilize Bible doctrine to grow in grace [acquiring the Mind of Christ]. The truths revealed in God's Word are spiritually discerned by trichotomous human beings [body, soul and spirit]. What is "being touched" in context?


    Originally posted by FMF
    The suggestion that people who do not believe in the things you claim about Christ, or have not had "the moment of salvation" that you happen to believe in, somehow do not possess "human spirit" is completely absurd and provides a clear example of how fanatical religionists end up literally dehumanizing those whose beliefs differ from theirs.

    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    And the rational [rather than an emotional] basis of these conclusions?

    Originally posted by FMF
    My post above was not in the slightest bit "emotional" although you will perhaps try to sidestep the point I made by attributing my criticism to some alleged personal weakness on my part - as is your wont - rather than address the point. You have no "rational" evidence that my non-Christian neighbours, for example, have no "human spirit".

    What you do have ~ indeed, all that you have ~ is your own certainty that you are 'right' and people who have a different set of superstitions from you are 'wrong'. Without the circular logic that your certainty is based on, you have no "evidence".

    If anything here has an "emotional" underpinning, then it is your inclination to dehumanize people ~ many billions of whom probably have a more generous, curious and less impaired "human spirit" than you.

    Regardless of whether it's merely the more or less random upshot of you ladling out some pompous word salad, that you would hijack and distort the meaning of the words "human spirit" and then use them in such a way so that they do not apply to billions and billions of fellow humans is the rhetorical trick of a self-aggrandizing fundamentalist ideologue.
  2. SubscriberFMF
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    27 Dec '14 03:01
    Is the notion that human spirit is exclusive to Christians a widely-held Christian belief?
  3. Standard memberlemon lime
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    27 Dec '14 06:39
    Originally posted by FMF
    Is the notion that human spirit is exclusive to Christians a widely-held Christian belief?
    From another thread:

    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    "So the very reason I am glad that anyone begins to read the Bible is totally a matter of their human spirit being touched, even that the human spirit would be enlivened and regenerated..."

    Originally posted by FMF
    Is the notion that human spirit is exclusive to Christians a widely-held Christian belief?

    Yes... 91.07% of all exclusively widely-held Christians believe the human spirit is exclusive to widely-held Christian belief.
  4. SubscriberFMF
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    27 Dec '14 06:40
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    It's your soul.....
    But the idea of the "soul" is common to a whole range of religions and philosophies. Followers of the Abrahamic religions typically believe that all human beings have "souls". On the other thread, are you seriously claiming that Christian doctrine says that "agnostics or atheists" along with people who don't believe in Christ, have no "soul" and no "human spirit"?
  5. SubscriberFMF
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    27 Dec '14 06:43
    Originally posted by lemon lime
    Yes... 91.07% of all exclusively widely-held Christians believe the human spirit is exclusive to widely-held Christian belief.
    What I am asking is whether it is a widely-held Christian belief that only Christians have human spirit ~ or a "soul", as Grampy Bobby now seems to be suggesting.

    I have never met a Christian who has professed to believe this, until now. Do you? Your attempted wordplay has made your response unclear.
  6. SubscriberFMF
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    27 Dec '14 06:551 edit
    Originally posted by lemon lime
    From another thread:

    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    "So the very reason I am glad that anyone begins to read the Bible is totally a matter of their human spirit being touched, even that the human spirit would be enlivened and regenerated..."
    I'm not sure why you are claiming the above words were originally posted by Grampy Bobby when they are sonship's. It will only confuse matters. Grampy Bobby and sonship appear not to agree on this only-Christians-have-human-spirit issue.
  7. Standard memberlemon lime
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    27 Dec '14 07:04
    Originally posted by FMF
    What I am asking is whether it is a widely-held Christian belief that only Christians have human spirit ~ or a "soul", as Grampy Bobby now seems to be suggesting.

    I have never met a Christian who has professed to believe this, until now. Do you? Your attempted wordplay has made your response unclear.
    Your attempted wordplay has made your response unclear.

    You asked if it was a widely-held belief, so what part of the response did you not understand?
  8. Standard memberlemon lime
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    27 Dec '14 07:171 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    I'm not sure why you are claiming the above words were originally posted by Grampy Bobby when they are sonship's. It will only confuse matters. Grampy Bobby and sonship appear not to agree on this only-Christians-have-human-spirit issue.
    I'm not sure why you are claiming the above words were originally posted by Grampy Bobby when they are sonship's.

    If the words are sonships' then why did you attribute them to Grampy Bobby?

    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    "So the very reason I am glad that anyone begins to read the Bible is totally a matter of their human spirit being touched, even that the human spirit would be enlivened and regenerated..."
  9. SubscriberFMF
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    27 Dec '14 07:26
    Originally posted by lemon lime
    You asked if it was a widely-held belief, so what part of the response did you not understand?
    Your response was deliberately nonsensical judging from how it mentioned "all exclusively widely-held Christians". A serious answer from you on this interesting topic would be more interesting. I have never met a Christian, besides Grampy Bobby, who has professed to believe that only Christians have human spirit or a "soul". Do you?
  10. Standard memberlemon lime
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    27 Dec '14 07:28
    Originally posted by FMF
    But the idea of the "soul" is common to a whole range of religions and philosophies. Followers of the Abrahamic religions typically believe that all human beings have "souls". On the other thread, are you seriously claiming that Christian doctrine says that "agnostics or atheists" along with people who don't believe in Christ, have no "soul" and no "human spirit"?
    GB and sonship obviously need to dumb this down for you. Too much theological explanation often leads to misunderstandings, or in your case a real whopper of a misunderstanding... if indeed you really are misunderstanding this.

    Christians believe everyone has a soul (and/or human spirit) so your question is puzzling in light of your extensive (former) experience of having once been a Christian.
  11. SubscriberFMF
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    27 Dec '14 07:29
    Originally posted by lemon lime
    If the words are sonships' then why did you attribute them to Grampy Bobby?
    The words are in quotation marks and it is quite clear in the OP that Grampy Bobby is responding to what were sonship's words.
  12. SubscriberFMF
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    27 Dec '14 07:32
    Originally posted by lemon lime
    GB and sonship obviously need to dumb this down for you. Too much theological explanation often leads to misunderstandings, or in your case a real whopper of a misunderstanding... if indeed you really are misunderstanding this.

    Christians believe everyone has a soul (and/or human spirit) so your question is puzzling in light of your extensive (former) experience of having once been a Christian.
    Grampy Bobby is saying that the human spirit "is acquired at the moment of salvation [a rational decision to choose for rather than against Christ]" and that "atheists and agnostics" don't have human spirit (or a "soul" as Grampy Bobby now seems to believe is its synonym). Sonship is disagreeing with him.
  13. SubscriberFMF
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    27 Dec '14 07:36
    Originally posted by lemon lime
    Christians believe everyone has a soul (and/or human spirit) so your question is puzzling in light of your extensive (former) experience of having once been a Christian.
    Yes, it was also my belief when I was a Christian. Are you of the opinion that the human spirit is already there before "...the moment of salvation [a rational decision to choose for rather than against Christ]", contrary to the doctrine Grampy Bobby is putting forward?
  14. Standard memberlemon lime
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    27 Dec '14 07:38
    Originally posted by FMF
    Your response was deliberately nonsensical judging from how it mentioned "all exclusively widely-held Christians". A serious answer from you on this interesting topic would be more interesting. I have never met a Christian, besides Grampy Bobby, who has professed to believe that only Christians have human spirit or a "soul". Do you?
    I have never met a Christian who has professed to believe that only Christians have a human spirit or a "soul"... period. But now I'm curious as to what GB might have said that makes you think he believes this. And don't bother giving me little bits and pieces of what he said, I'll go back to the thread in question and see it (in context) for myself.
  15. SubscriberFMF
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    27 Dec '14 07:40
    Originally posted by lemon lime
    I have never met a Christian who has professed to believe that only Christians have a human spirit or a "soul"... period. But now I'm curious as to what GB might have said that makes you think he believes this. And don't bother giving me little bits and pieces of what he said, I'll go back to the thread in question and see it (in context) for myself.
    It's in the OP.
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