Is TRINITY Biblical??? Does TRINITY exsist in Godhead???

Originally posted by twhitehead
And how do you know that was not fabricated by believers? I still cant fathom why people believe without question every word in the Bible without even the most basic understanding of what the Bible is and where it comes from.

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And how do you know that was not fabricated by believers? I still cant fathom why people believe without question every word in the Bible without even the most basic understanding of what the Bible is and where it comes from.
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God does not require anyone to believe every word of the Bible before they enter into a relationship with Him.

You should never consider that believing every word in the Bible is a requirement to be received by the Father as a forgiven sinner.

On the other hand if one believes every word of the Bible and yet never receives Jesus Christ into their heart as the Savior - what good has it done him? It has availed to absolutely NOTHING - to believe in every word of the Bible and still not receive the Person of Jesus as the Savior.

"Lord Jesus. I do not believe so many things in this Bible. But Lord I hear that you loved me and want to come into my heart. Just as I am then Jesus, I come. receive me Lord Jesus."

You see that prayer? The sinner has come "Just As I Am, many a conflict, many a doubt, fightings within and fears without."

The writer of the classic hymn 'Lamb of God, I Come, I Come." surely understood this.

Originally posted by jaywill
["Lord Jesus. I do not believe so many things in this Bible. But Lord I hear that you loved me and want to come into my heart. Just as I am then Jesus, I come. receive me Lord Jesus."

Hi J. What is this prayer saying, is there anything scriptually based in it?

"Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word.....etc". And Jesus entering a persons heart is never mentioned in the bible as a requisite for new birth. Confession of who Jesus is, is though Romans 10.

your thoughts on this?

Originally posted by divegeester
Hi J. What is this prayer saying, is there anything scriptually based in it?

"Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word.....etc". And Jesus entering a persons heart is never mentioned in the bible as a requisite for new birth. Confession of who Jesus is, is though Romans 10.

your thoughts on this?

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Hi J. What is this prayer saying, is there anything scriptually based in it?
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I don't know why you would want to act as a kind of "prayer police" and grill me to back up that this simple example of a prayer of faith is doctrinally pure.

This was simply an example of a prayer of faith to the Lord Jesus Christ of an honest heart. Many people come to saving faith in Christ with little knowledge of the "correct" doctrinal prayer to utter. That is because God is so willing to receive the one who comes in faith.

The prodigal son had rehearsed a speech to recite to his father. It was not necessary. The fact that he took the steps towards home and was sited by his father caused the father to run to him. In the ANE for a old man to run is really a sign of humility. It was against the norms of the dignity of old age for an aged man to be seen running. So I was told.

My point is that the prodigal son was warmly welcomed by the eager father. A special speech from the wayward son elaborating how he had sinned against heaven and against the father was barely uttered because of the father's eagerness. See Luke 15:18-24.

The Apostle Paul said that Christ may make His home in our hearts through faith (Eph. 3:17)

There are many many ways one can express her faith in Christ so as to allow Him to make His home in the seeker's heart.

So I do not feel it too necessary to doctrinally defend the particular utterance that I used. It was only an example.


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"Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word.....etc". And Jesus entering a persons heart is never mentioned in the bible as a requisite for new birth. Confession of who Jesus is, is though Romans 10.

your thoughts on this?
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Concerning Jesus entering into the heart I have already refered you to Ephesians 3:17 - "That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith."

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And Jesus entering a persons heart is never mentioned in the bible as a requisite for new birth.
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I do not agree with this.

Consider John 1:12 - "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name, who were begotten not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

This passage talks about the result of RECEIVING Christ. And the result is that God gives the RECEIVER authority to become one of the regenerated children of God. And the word "begotten" would indicate the new birth.

The only word that is not specifically mentioned in this passage is the heart. But the heart is composed of the mind, emotion, will, and conscience of man. So it is understood that some inward component, if not each, of the heart, has to RECEIVE the living Person Jesus.

I think that it is chiefly the CONSCIENCE of man which is the real gateway into a man's heart for Christ to enter in. But I might not insist that the MIND or the EMOTION or WILL could also be the gateway.

In any event, I think John 1:12,13 does show the new birth contingent upon RECEIVING the Son of God. Receiving here means Him entering in.

See also John 14:23.

Originally posted by whodey
One of the best ways I understand the Trinity is that man was made in the image of God and like man, who is composed of body, soul, and spirit, God also is three persons in one.

My Muslim friends rip this incoherent and rather blasphemous 'theology' to pieces, and quite rightly so. For fun, I fight the 'trinity' thing's corner, but it doesn't cut any ice here - intellectually, spiritually or theologically. I think some eclesiastical technocrats made it up for obscurantization purposes during an age when dissent or dissection was not on the cards. The very idea that God poured himself into a human body which then walked around on Earth and got itself executed makes Christianity seem, to Muslims, like an ignorant cult based on a profound and nonsensical misunderstanding.

Originally posted by FMF
My Muslim friends rip this incoherent and rather blasphemous 'theology' to pieces, and quite rightly so. For fun, I fight the 'trinity' thing's corner, but it doesn't cut any ice here - intellectually, spiritually or theologically. I think some eclesiastical technocrats made it up for obscurantization purposes during an age when dissent or dissection was not on ...[text shortened]... m, to Muslims, like an ignorant cult based on a profound and nonsensical misunderstanding.

The fact that Muhammad was a pedophile and married a nine year old girl, and the fact that muslim men are marrying six and seven year-old girls today, and school girls in Afghanistan are having acid sprayed in their eyes by Islamofascists seems to many Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, and others of common sense, that Islam is an ignorant seventh-century man-made cult. Muhammad died. Jesus died and rose again. Can you top that?

Originally posted by FMF
My Muslim friends rip this incoherent and rather blasphemous 'theology' to pieces, and quite rightly so. For fun, I fight the 'trinity' thing's corner, but it doesn't cut any ice here - intellectually, spiritually or theologically. I think some eclesiastical technocrats made it up for obscurantization purposes during an age when dissent or dissection was not on ...[text shortened]... m, to Muslims, like an ignorant cult based on a profound and nonsensical misunderstanding.

The Trinity is quite biblical.
But more it is quite experiencial.

Your back patting self appreciation is really impressive. And I am glad that your Muslim friends offer you some "fun" and entertainment. But the Trinity is quite biblical.

I don't realy think human beings would not come up with an idea like the Triune God even if they were able to. You have to blame it on the Bible.

Originally posted by dystoniac
The fact that Muhammad was a pedophile and married a nine year old girl, and the fact that muslim men are marrying six and seven year-old girls today, and school girls in Afghanistan are having acid sprayed in their eyes by Islamofascists seems to many Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, and others of common sense, that Islam is an ignorant seventh-century man-made cult. Muhammad died. Jesus died and rose again. Can you top that?

I don't think it's right to blame Islam for the excesses of people and groups who claim to be its followers. We could look at history and cobble together a not dissimilar list of things done in the name of Christianity. A few hundred years is nothing in terms of the entire sweep and timeline of human history. So your ahistorical and sincere outrage about the atrocities you cite does not really help. As for the Jesus thing, they don't think he rose again. They don't think he was God. They think Jesus was prophet (makes a certain amount of sense), that Christians misunderstood him and went off half cock (also makes a certain amount of sense, although you are at liberty to disagree) and that Mohammed was the last prophet (makes just as much sense as anything else most people talk about here on this forum).

Originally posted by jaywill
Your back patting self appreciation is really impressive. And I am glad that your Muslim friends offer you some "fun" and entertainment.

Well they do. I enjoy my Indonesian friends' company, immensely, and we enjoy discussing this that and the other. It's interesting that you assumed it was some sort of condescending thing. Is that the stance you take when you sit down with a Muslim family and eat together and then talk until the early hours, trying to solve the world's problems? It really is fascinating that you automatically conjured up an image of condescension from the few words I used. Perhaps your faux pas says much more about you than me?

In these situations, I'll tell you, you need to have a little more than "it says in the bible" in your quivver to make a case about the human condition, spirituality and all the Big Questions. Educated Muslims with an interest in things spiritual are just as aware of the inconsistencies of Al-Quran as they are of those in the Holy Bible. That is why they are able to talk much more refreshingly about their spirituality - much less dogmatically - about their personal relationship with God, than the vast majority of similarly educated Christians can, in my experience. If you've trully engaged with Muslims you will know what I mean. Your back-patting self-conscious monotone about "the bible" wouldn't really be that impressive in such a dynamic, multi-faith situation, methinks.

Originally posted by jaywill
I don't know why you would want to act as a kind of "prayer police" and grill me to back up that this simple example of a prayer of faith is doctrinally pure.

It was not meant that way at all J; but my apologies anyway. And thank you for your response, informative as always.

Originally posted by FMF
My Muslim friends rip this incoherent and rather blasphemous 'theology' to pieces, and quite rightly so. For fun, I fight the 'trinity' thing's corner, but it doesn't cut any ice here - intellectually, spiritually or theologically. I think some eclesiastical technocrats made it up for obscurantization purposes during an age when dissent or dissection was not on ...[text shortened]... m, to Muslims, like an ignorant cult based on a profound and nonsensical misunderstanding.

have you never read my friend of its Greek origins? how it finds its very basis in pre christian platonic thought? jaywill is a very kind and sincere individual, a deeply spiritual man and well informed, no question, but his adherence to this doctrine is quite strange, why would one cling to such a tradition as this, why is it so important?

Originally posted by FMF
Well they do. I enjoy my Indonesian friends' company, immensely, and we enjoy discussing this that and the other. It's interesting that you assumed it was some sort of condescending thing. Is that the stance you take when you sit down with a Muslim family and eat together and then talk until the early hours, trying to solve the world's problems? It really is fas ...[text shortened]... wouldn't really be that impressive in such a dynamic, multi-faith situation, methinks.

the difference being that we are free to air our thoughts publicly with regard to any inconsistencies or idiosyncrasies as you put it, without fear of repercussion or violence, the same cannot be said of Islam, can it?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7883612.stm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3135933/Author-Sherry-Jones-defiant-over-controversial-book-about-Prophet-Mohammeds-child-bride.html

Originally posted by joelgeorge
Rest of our friends disappeared? 🙁

I can no more explain the trinity to you than I can explain how Christ was 100% human AND 100% divine. Neither can anyone else, I'd wager, since folks have been attempting it since at least the Council at Nicea was held. Some mysteries we simply do not have the answers to. That's why it's called "faith". That explanation will never be satisfying enough for some and will always be of great comfort to others. Pick yer poison.

Originally posted by divegeester
It was not meant that way at all J; but my apologies anyway. And thank you for your response, informative as always.

Sorry for my grumpy tone.

It must have been way past my bedtime.

Then Again I could just be a grumpy dude.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
the difference being that we are free to air our thoughts publicly with regard to any inconsistencies or idiosyncrasies as you put it, without fear of repercussion or violence, the same cannot be said of Islam, can it?

Oh? What can be said - by you, for instance - about "free[dom] to air ... thoughts publicly with regard to any inconsistencies or idiosyncrasies [...] without fear of repercussion or violence..." in the largest Muslim country in the world - which ought to be at least one of your terms of reference when pontificating about Islam?