Is your God 'the' correct God??

Originally posted by chaney3
But it is the Christian belief that Jesus is the only way to the Father, and therefore Heaven. So, if the Jews do not believe in Jesus.....for whatever reason, they are doomed to 'hell' along with the Buddhists, right? If I am seeking the 'true God'....or 'correct God', and I am being told that it is only Jesus Christ, and that I should repent and follow C ...[text shortened]... uch confusion among the world....that is guaranteeing that most will end up in the Lake of Fire.

You are making an idol by making a god to your own liking. The real God has provided a way for all Israel to be saved at the end. In the meantime, Christians are to preach the teachings of Jesus to the Gentiles in all the world.

Originally posted by RJHinds
You are making an idol by making a god to your own liking. The real God has provided a way for all Israel to be saved at the end. In the meantime, Christians are to preach the teachings of Jesus to the Gentiles in all the world.

That is the point of this thread. You and the Orthodox Christians have the only truth on the planet, and millions of gentiles are wrong. JW are wrong, Jews are wrong, Muslims are wrong, atheists are wrong. Only RJHinds and his disciples have the 'correct God'. To preach the 'word' of their beliefs to the world, and anyone who dares ask some reasonable questions about it are making idols to their own liking. It is arrogant.

Originally posted by chaney3
Honestly, I have no idea what the Buddhists think or believe. It was just an example of other people worshiping someone other than Jesus, and how Christians would say that they are fools. I am more astonished at how today's Jewish people still only believe in the God of the Old Testament, and do NOT believe at all in Jesus Christ. They are still apparentl ...[text shortened]... er with Jesus, and got firsthand knowledge of what He meant to say, and how they should believe.

If you have no idea what they think or believe, how is it you can compare what they have
to what I have?

Originally posted by KellyJay
If you have no idea what they think or believe, how is it you can compare what they have
to what I have?

Because according to Christian beliefs, as I have said, if you do not believe in God/Jesus, then you do not go to Heaven. With that belief system, Christians cannot deny that a Buddhist, no matter how good of a person he is, will end up in hell. With that belief system, Christians are claiming to have the 'correct God'. That was my point.

And, as I just said to RJHinds, the Jews, Muslims, JW, and Atheists will join the Buddhist in hell as well. According to Christians.

Originally posted by chaney3
Because according to Christian beliefs, as I have said, if you do not believe in God/Jesus, then you do not go to Heaven. With that belief system, Christians cannot deny that a Buddhist, no matter how good of a person he is, will end up in hell. With that belief system, Christians are claiming to have the 'correct God'. That was my point.

And, as I jus ...[text shortened]... ews, Muslims, JW, and Atheists will join the Buddhist in hell as well. According to Christians.

"All of us have this commandment at heart: do good and do not do evil. All of us. ‘But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.’ Yes, he can..."The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!...We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there."

Pope Francis

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
"All of us have this commandment at heart: do good and do not do evil. All of us. ‘But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.’ Yes, he can..."The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!...We must meet one another doing go ...[text shortened]... believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there."

Pope Francis

Is Pope Francis saying that when Jesus Christ died on the cross, it was in essence an across the board salvation for all humans? That regardless of what your personal belief system is, it doesn't matter? That all humans will be going to Heaven? Maybe as long as one makes the effort to do good? Because if that is what he meant, it surely conflicts with most of the Christian and Catholic Bible doctrine.....I think?

Originally posted by chaney3
Honestly, I have no idea what the Buddhists think or believe. It was just an example of other people worshiping someone other than Jesus, and how Christians would say that they are fools. I am more astonished at how today's Jewish people still only believe in the God of the Old Testament, and do NOT believe at all in Jesus Christ. They are still apparentl ...[text shortened]... er with Jesus, and got firsthand knowledge of what He meant to say, and how they should believe.

I am more astonished at how today's Jewish people still only believe in the God of the Old Testament, and do NOT believe at all in Jesus Christ. They are still apparently waiting for their 'Messiah'. I find this odd, because during the time of Christ, while He walked the earth and performed His miracles, surely the Jews would have been convinced 2,000 years ago....but they were not.

Actually it's not all that "odd". There are many reasons that the Jews do not believe that Jesus is the messiah. To get an idea of the Jewish concept of the messiah and why Jesus does not fit that concept, take a look at the following web pages:

IN SHORT... Most Christians identify the messiah with Jesus, define him as Gd incarnate, and believe he died for the sins of humanity as a blood sacrifice. This requires that one accept the concept of vicarious atonement. However, as was illustrated and explained in the essay "One person cannot die for the sins of another," this idea is the opposite from what is written in Deuteronomy 24:16, 'Every man shall be put to death for his own sin' -- also expressed in Exodus 32:30-35 and Ezekiel 18. The mainstream Christian idea of the messiah also assumes that Gd wants and will accept a human sacrifice. After all, it was either Jesus-the-human or Jesus-the-divine who died on the cross. Jews, and presumably, Christians as well, believe that Gd cannot die, and so all that Christians are left with, in the death of Jesus on the cross, is a human sacrifice. However, in Deuteronomy 12:30-31, Gd calls human sacrifice an abomination, and something He hates: 'for every abomination to the Etrnl, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.' All human beings are sons or daughters, and any sacrifice to Gd of any human being would be something that Gd would hate. Therefore, the Christian conception of the messiah consists of ideas that are unbiblical.

Pasted from <http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/explanation3.html>

The word "mashiach" does not mean "savior." The notion of an innocent, divine or semi-divine being who will sacrifice himself to save us from the consequences of our own sins is a purely Christian concept that has no basis in Jewish thought. Unfortunately, this Christian concept has become so deeply ingrained in the English word "messiah" that this English word can no longer be used to refer to the Jewish concept. The word "mashiach" will be used throughout this page.

Pasted from <http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm>

The Jewish Concept of Messiah and the Jewish Response to Christian Claims

Pasted from <http://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/answers/jewish-polemics/the-jewish-messiah/the-jewish-concept-of-messiah-and-the-jewish-response-to-christian-claims/

To gain a reasonable understanding, you have to read the pages in their entirety and not just the snippets I posted here.

Originally posted by chaney3
Is Pope Francis saying that when Jesus Christ died on the cross, it was in essence an across the board salvation for all humans? That regardless of what your personal belief system is, it doesn't matter? That all humans will be going to Heaven? Maybe as long as one makes the effort to do good? Because if that is what he meant, it surely conflicts with most of the Christian and Catholic Bible doctrine.....I think?

Yes, that is certainly my interpretation of his meaning.

We are all saved and there is nothing we can do about it. The deed is done. So come, enjoy the buffet.

Originally posted by chaney3
Is Pope Francis saying that when Jesus Christ died on the cross, it was in essence an across the board salvation for all humans? That regardless of what your personal belief system is, it doesn't matter? That all humans will be going to Heaven? Maybe as long as one makes the effort to do good? Because if that is what he meant, it surely conflicts with most of the Christian and Catholic Bible doctrine.....I think?

You're right to be incredulous, since it does "surely conflict with most of the Christian and Catholic Bible doctrine".

The following explanation was taken from "Pope Francis Explained: Survey of Myths, Legends, and Catholic Defenses in Harmony with Tradition" by Dave Armstrong:

First of all, the pope is expressing that Christ died for all;
what is called universal atonement, as opposed to the Calvinist
belief in limited atonement (Christ died only for the elect).
Universal atonement is not universalism (all are saved). It means,
rather, that God desires for all to be saved, and all could be, but
for their free will that causes a portion of the whole to reject
God’s grace for salvation and wind up condemned for eternity in
hell.

This seems much more reasonable than what Ghost of a Duke would have you believe. BTW, if you haven't figured it out, GoaD is a troll who doesn't seem to have any qualms about playing fast and loose with the truth.

Originally posted by chaney3
Because according to Christian beliefs, as I have said, if you do not believe in God/Jesus, then you do not go to Heaven. With that belief system, Christians cannot deny that a Buddhist, no matter how good of a person he is, will end up in hell. With that belief system, Christians are claiming to have the 'correct God'. That was my point.

And, as I jus ...[text shortened]... ews, Muslims, JW, and Atheists will join the Buddhist in hell as well. According to Christians.

I do not care what you think about my faith, if you don't know their faith why do you think
they can be compared, you just admitted you know nothing about them?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I do not care what you think about my faith, if you don't know their faith why do you think
they can be compared, you just admitted you know nothing about them?

They don't believe in Jesus Christ, therefore they are going to hell. What don't you understand about that?

I don't know what some remote African tribe believes either, but if it's not Jesus Christ, they go to hell also. I was just using Buddhism as an example, and I am just finding it curious that Christianity is the only 'correct' religion/belief system on the planet. No need to get so defensive, you seem to be safe from hell.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b] I am more astonished at how today's Jewish people still only believe in the God of the Old Testament, and do NOT believe at all in Jesus Christ. They are still apparently waiting for their 'Messiah'. I find this odd, because during the time of Christ, while He walked the earth and performed His miracles, surely the Jews would have been convinced 2,0 ...[text shortened]... rstanding, you have to read the pages in their entirety and not just the snippets I posted here.

This is entirely refuted by the prophet Isaiah in his 53rd chapter.

That includes these lines among others -

But Jehovah was pleased to crush Him, to afflict Him with grief. When He makes Himself an offering for sin. (53:10)

He will see the fruit of the travail of His soul, And He will be satisfied; By the knowledge of Him, the righteous One, My Servant, will make the many righteous,

And He will bear their iniquities. (v.11)

Because He poured out His life unto death And was numbered with the transgressors, Yet He alone bore the sin of many And interceded for the transgressor. (v.12)

Here the atoning death and resurrection of the Righeous Servant of Yahweh is prophesied. He is crushed in judgment, though being innocent, and will rise again to be satisfied to "see the fruit of the travail of His soul."

By His strips we the sinners are healed -

He was crushed because of our iniquities; The chastening for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we have been healed. (v5)

We all like sheep have gone astray; Each of us as turned to his own way, And Jehovah has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him. (v.6)

Once again - the 12 apostles of Jesus were Jews.
Paul, author of some 13 of the 27 New Testament books, was also a Jew.

And if you argue now that the Suffering Servant in Isaiah 53 is the Jewish people, your argument backfires because you then have a propitiatory sacrifice for transgressors carried out collectively by the whole nation, which offering you are attempting to deny.

So Isaiah 53 is a death knell to rejection of a Righteous Messiah inability to be a offering for the sins of everyone.

"That He was cut off from the land of the living For the transgression of my people to whom the stroke was due ... He makes Himself an offering for sin ... My Servant shall make the many righteous."

I would advise anyone reading the submissions of ThinkofOne purporting to have the official "Jewish" take on rejecting the Messiah, should double check with the Yeshua believing JEWS from Jews4Jesus - argument for argument.

http://jewsforjesus.org/

Originally posted by KellyJay
I cannot speak for Buddhist only myself.

Another insightful post.
And there we all were thinking you were an Official Buddhist Spokesperson.

Originally posted by sonship
This is entirely refuted by the prophet [b]Isaiah in his 53rd chapter.

That includes these lines among others -

[quote] But Jehovah was pleased to crush Him, to afflict Him with grief. When He makes Himself an offering for sin. (53:10)

He will see the fruit of the travail of His soul, And He will be satisfied; By the knowledge of Him, the r ...[text shortened]... g [b]JEWS from Jews4Jesus - argument for argument.

http://jewsforjesus.org/[/b]

C'mon jaywill. Perhaps you don't understand the purpose of Jews for Jesus:

Jews for Jesus is a Messianic Jewish evangelical organization that focuses on the conversion of the Jewish people to Christianity.[1][2][3] Jews for Jesus defines Jewishness in terms of parentage and as a birthright, regardless of religious belief[4] and its members consider themselves to be Jews – either as defined by Jewish law, or according to the view of Jews for Jesus.

The identification of Jews for Jesus as a Jewish organization is rejected by Jewish religious denominations[5][6] and secular Jewish groups[7][8] due to the Christian beliefs of its members. The group's evangelistic activities have garnered mixed reactions from other Christian individuals and organizations, largely divided between liberal and conservative lines.[1][9]

The organization was founded by Moishe Rosen, an ordained Baptist minister who was born Jewish and converted to Christianity at the age of 17,[13] and Jhan Moskowitz, an ordained Christian and Missionary Alliance minister and son of a Holocaust survivor.[

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_for_Jesus

For all intents and purposes, members of Jews for Jesus are religiously Christians and as such adhere to Christian beliefs.

I would advise anyone reading the submissions of ThinkofOne purporting to have the official "Jewish" take on rejecting the Messiah, should double check with the Yeshua believing JEWS from Jews4Jesus - argument for argument.


Arguments which are contrary to the Jewish faith.

Once again - the 12 apostles of Jesus were Jews.
Paul, author of some 13 of the 27 New Testament books, was also a Jew.

But no longer of the Jewish faith once they converted. Your argument does not account for the distinction between the ethnicity and the faith. As such, it is misleading at best and dishonest at worst.

Originally posted by sonship
Once again - the 12 apostles of Jesus were Jews.
Paul, author of some 13 of the 27 New Testament books, was also a Jew.

This is only true today because we have changed the meaning of Jew. Jews were originally from the tribe of Judah. Paul claimed to be an Israelite, not a Jew, because he says he is from the tribe of Benjamin.