Originally posted by rwingettI strongly doubt it. Contrary to popular belief, Europe was not a stinking rat-hole between the 12th and 16th centuries. Much of the groundwork for Enlightenment philosophy and science was laid by Christian philosophers and scientists during this period.
If christianity seems more peaceful than Islam its only because they've been forced into that position, kicking and screaming, by a few centuries of rational thought. Islam is what christianity would be today if it had not been for the Enlightenment.
Sociology 101: Revolution does not happen when the social situation has been poor for a while; it happens when the situation is rapidly improving.
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Originally posted by HalitoseIt is my humble understanding that the theological point of conflict is the so-called "sixth" pillar of Islam, Jihad. Some minority (but growing fundamentalist Muslims), include this sixth pillar of Islam but the meanings of jihad vary from group to group.The idea is that since Islam is to be the final revelation of true religion which should combine all humanity into one Islamic brotherhood, some think that other religions should be eliminated either by propagation of the faith through proclamation or by military force.
A religion of peace? A religion that inspires terrorism? A bit of both depending on which part of the Qur'an and Hadith you emphasise?
* Footnote – I’m certainly not, in any way, attempting to generalise Muslims as terrorists; this is merely an attempt to understand what would inspire both deeds of greatness and at the same time, some of the most horrible atrocities.
By my understanding of the matter and my limited exposure to the Muslim community, by far the vast majority of Muslims condemn the idea of forced conversions.Most Muslims insist that a proper understanding of jihad as the inner struggle to be godly.
If someone more knowledgeable in the matter finds fault in my statement here, I REQUEST that you correct me.
Originally posted by StarrmanBah!
When the Christians eventually took over the area under Ferdinand 3rd, nearly all of this wealth of academic and cultural treasure was lost or destroyed.
Some of it was inevitably destroyed, but many of the cultural contributions (for instance, the Arab commentaries on the Greek philosophers) were assimilated into Christendom.
Originally posted by HalitoseI haven't read Gibbon.
[b]When Constantine died, the collapse of the empire began and about 100 years later, it was pretty much finished. It is arguably in part to Christianity that this decline could be attributed.
So you agree with Edward Gibbon's theory in The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire? I tend to think that it was more of an inevitable transformation ...[text shortened]... g to boast about, IMHO)
* Note to Bosse: This is not another parading of "cool Christians".[/b]
The literature may have been preserved, but putting it away in a library somewhere for safe keeping does not encourage creativity or the pursuit of such cultural interests.
Michaelangelo was at the turn of the cultural movement, and his work, though undoubtedly technically brilliant, didn't push the boundaries of Christianity; he was a fantastic painter, glamourising the RCC. LDV was I think it's fair to say an exceptional man and certainly contributed to the coming era of cultural advancement. But you are talking about the end period following centuaries of stagnation.
Originally posted by OmnislashI'm pretty sure you are right. Interestingly, I just did a Google search which turned up the fact only Sunni Muslims use the idea of five pillars of Islam. There is no such idea in the Shi'ite tradition.
It is my humble understanding that the theological point of conflict is the so-called "sixth" pillar of Islam, Jihad. Some minority (but growing fundamentalist Muslims), include this sixth pillar of Islam but the meanings of jihad vary from group to group.The idea is that since Islam is to be the final revelation of true religion which should combine all ...[text shortened]... ore knowledgeable in the matter finds fault in my statement here, I REQUEST that you correct me.
But anyway, back to the real issue any thread about Islam must answer: were the Dark Ages in Europe actually a golden era?
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Originally posted by StarrmanCheck pg1; I had no intent of even bringing Christianity into the discussion, but the parallel was immediately drawn within the first 3 (OK, make that 6) replies. You only jumped in when the dust was already flying - partly due to my retaliation. 😀
Lol, Hal, you're the one that came up with the Christian contention in the first place 🙂
Originally posted by HalitoseI blame Omni, I think he started it! 😛
Check pg1; I had no intent of even bringing Christianity into the discussion, but the parallel was immediately drawn within the first 3 (OK, make that 6) replies. You only jumped in when the dust was already flying - partly due to my retaliation. 😀
Originally posted by HalitoseYou asked " A religion that inspires terrorism? ".
Check pg1; I had no intent of even bringing Christianity into the discussion, but the parallel was immediately drawn within the first 3 (OK, make that 6) replies. You only jumped in when the dust was already flying - partly due to my retaliation. 😀
My belief is that people of various religions have commited terrorist acts and often in the name of thier religion. To what extent it is "inspired" by the religion is a complex question. Hitler probably claimed to be inspired by Christianity. To use Christianity as an example is definately valid as most people on this forum have a greater understanding of Christianity and the history of events involving Christians. If I was to talk about terrorism by Budists I would be lying because I know next to nothing about Budism and cirtainly dont know of any terrorism incidents.
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Originally posted by HalitoseHalitose, you were pointing out that Islam was a violent religion....
Christians follow the teachings of Jesus Christ; Muslims follow the teachings of Muhammed.
IMO there are quite a few differences.
SO IS CHRISTIANITY! It has a very long and hard and DETAILED history of violence.
Lets take an example of each -
The recent 9/11 attack has basis in an extreme faction of the Islamic faith.
They killed a few thousand people - most instantly, some suffered briefly then died (others jumped, which is a debated issue). It was a fanatical slap in the face to what that faction believes to be a country that has gotten too big for its britches and fallen into evil.
The Inquisition from the 15th and 16th century rooting deeply in Catholic Christianity -
They tortured then killed many thousands of people and tortured hundreds of thousands of people over an extended period of time. Why? Because those in control of it thought that you MIGHT not believe as they did. This is a time of Christians killing and torturing Chirstians.
If you ask me... Yea, they are a lot different and Christianity is a lot worse.
**NOTE - I am not condoning the actions of any faith. I think all of it is a travesty and abhorrently wrong. Religion has proved itself (no matter what religion) to be at the core of the majority of conflicts throughout history and across the world. ***