Islam

Originally posted by twhitehead
You asked " A religion that inspires terrorism? ".
My belief is that people of various religions have commited terrorist acts and often in the name of thier religion. To what extent it is "inspired" by the religion is a complex question. Hitler probably claimed to be inspired by Christianity. To use Christianity as an example is definately valid as m ...[text shortened]... because I know next to nothing about Budism and cirtainly dont know of any terrorism incidents.

Originally posted by KnightWulfe
The Inquisition from the 15th and 16th century rooting deeply in Catholic Christianity -
They tortured then killed many thousands of people and tortured hundreds of thousands of people over an extended period of time. Why? Because those in control of it thought that you MIGHT not believe as they did. This is a time of Christians killing and torturing Chirstians.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
There is a thread somewhere on this.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
There is a thread somewhere on this.

These are a few verses on fighting that I found in the Qur’an, and some comments (“resurrected” from another thread). I have used more than one translation:

Surah 4:101— “And when you journey in the earth, there is no blame on you if you shorten the prayer, if you fear that those who disbelieve will cause you trouble. Surely the disbelievers are an open enemy to you.” (Maulana Ali’s translation)

In this case, it is non-Muslims who have declared themselves to be open enemies to the Muslims. Muslims are here permitted to shorten their prayer-time (Muslims pray five times a day) if they fear that their enemies will harass or attack them.

Surah 2:190-195—

“And fight in God’s cause* against those who wage war against you but do not commit aggression, for surely God does not love aggressors.

“And slay them wherever you find them, and drive them out from where they drove you out, for oppression is even worse than killing. And fight not against them near the Inviolable House of Worship unless they fight against you there first; but if they fight against you, slay them: such is the recompense of those who deny the truth.

“But if they desist—behold, God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.

“Hence, fight against them until there is no more oppression and all worship is devoted to God alone; but if they desist, all hostility shall cease, except against oppressors.

“Fight during the sacred months if you are attacked: for a violation of sanctity is just retribution. Thus, if anyone commits aggression against you, attack him just as he has attacked you—but remain conscious of God, and know that God is with those who are conscious of him.

“And spend in God’s cause, and let not your own hands throw you into destruction; and persevere in doing good: behold, God loves the doers of good.” (Muhammad Asad’s translation)

This seems to be clearly about fighting against aggression, persecution, oppression, to defend your religion, your property, your life. It is not a “hunting license” against unbelievers. If the aggressors cease hostility, so must the Muslims. (The same general thing applies to Surah 4:89-91, except that these verses deal with those who pretended to ally themselves with the Muslims, while plotting against them.)

Also, Surah 22:39, 40—

“Permission is granted those (to take up arms) who fight because they were oppressed. God is certainly able to help those who were driven away from their homes for no other reason than they said: “Our Lord is God.” And if God had not restrained some men through others, monasteries, churches, synagogues and mosques, where the name of God is honored most, would have been razed.” (Ahmed Ali’s translation; this may be the chronologically earliest mention of fighting in the Qur’an.)

It should also be noted that the Qur’an is not written as a straightforward narrative text. It often seems to have a kind of dialectical pattern to it, which undoubtedly complicates the nature of “contextuality,” and which I think Islamic exegesis takes into account.

With regard to Hadith, thus far I found these in a disputed wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_war_in_Islam):

•"You are neither hard-hearted nor of fierce character, nor one who shouts in the markets. You do not return evil for evil, but excuse and forgive." - Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 362
•"Do not kill any old person, any child or any woman" (Abu Dawud).
•"Do not kill the monks in monasteries" or "Do not kill the people who are sitting in places of worship" (Musnad of Ibn Hanbal).
Speech by Abu Bakr, Mohammed's closest friend and first successor, to an Islamic army set out for Syria: "Stop, O people, that I may give you ten rules for your guidance in the battlefield. Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman, nor an aged man. Bring no harm to the trees, nor burn them with fire, especially those which are fruitful. Slay not any of the enemy's flock, save for your food. You are likely to pass by people who have devoted their lives to monastic services; leave them alone."


* Maulana Ali, in his translation renders this as “fight in the way of Allah,” and comments that this means strictly defensive fighting; it also includes such things as prohibitions on killing innocents (non-combatants) and a requirement to cease fighting once the aggressors do. Ali says: “It is this defensive fighting which is called fighting in the way of Allah. Fighting for the propagation of the faith is not once mentioned in the whole of the Qur’an.” (italics in original)

Originally posted by KnightWulfe
Christians have commited more atrocities than all other religions combined. So him touting off about Islam being violent or even Islam having a faction or factions that are violent is a crock of shite. Christianity has done far worse.

Originally posted by vistesd
These are a few verses on fighting that I found in the Qur’an, and some comments (“resurrected” from another thread). I have used more than one translation:

Surah 4:101— “And when you journey in the earth, there is no blame on you if you shorten the prayer, if you fear that those who disbelieve will cause you trouble. Surely the disbelievers are an open ...[text shortened]... opagation of the faith is not once mentioned in the whole of the Qur’an.” (italics in original)

Originally posted by Halitose
Thanks vistesd, something substantial to go on finally--will be back with some thoughts.

Originally posted by KnightWulfe
I am sure there is and I am sure that the topic has come up more than once.

The point of my post was to show Halitose that violence is not an Islamic cornering of the market. Christians have commited more atrocities than all other religions combined. So him touting off about Islam being violent or even Islam having a faction or factions that are violent is a crock of shite. Christianity has done far worse.

Originally posted by Halitose
Then please state your case in the "Christianity" thread. And do go through the link I cited in regards to the Inquisition thread - it may be that the infamous inquisition might be much more tame than the torture and gore-fest you make it out to be.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Vistesd is the man of substance 🙂

You must have missed the thread when all this came up before.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
I wouldn't trivialise it, Hal--2000 executed and thousands more tortured still constitutes a blot on the landscape. Of course, Knightwulfe's claim is wildly exaggerated.

Originally posted by vistesd
These are a few verses on fighting that I found in the Qur’an, and some comments (“resurrected” from another thread). I have used more than one translation:

Surah 4:101— “And when you journey in the earth, there is no blame on you if you shorten the prayer, if you fear that those who disbelieve will cause you trouble. Surely the disbelievers are an open ...[text shortened]... opagation of the faith is not once mentioned in the whole of the Qur’an.” (italics in original)

Originally posted by lucifershammer
[b]2000 executed and thousands more tortured

Actually, if you do the math, the number of people tortured is about the same.[/b]