Israel fulfilling Biblical Prophecy

Originally posted by RJHinds
I do not see any kind of help coming from you. All I see is the use of logical fallacies to attack my character and to mock and ridicule my views. That is not what I consider help in increasing self esteem. I see your efforts as the work of an arrogant evil man that needs to be insulted.

Does that imply that insulting others is a good way to instruct others? That it is a truly christian deed?

This isn't about you, this isn't about me. I am here to learn, not to be insulted. If I have a question you don't know the answer, then don't get upset, just answer "I don't know" and everything is fine. Perhaps some other can answer, or perhaps it is an unresolvable paradox. And then we know.

If I believe everyone just to avoid insults, then I would be a robot, a non-thinker. Then I would believe Satan too. How knows, perhaps you are the Satan in disguise. but when I use my own brain to sieve out the answers that doesn't make sense, the flosquolous answers that mean nothing, and the disinformation who lead nowhere, then I am a step, a tine but still, closer to the Truth.

But if you take anything I say as mockery, then just don't listen to me. there are always others who perhaps can answer a question.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Does that imply that insulting others is a good way to instruct others? That it is a truly christian deed?

This isn't about you, this isn't about me. I am here to learn, not to be insulted. If I have a question you don't know the answer, then don't get upset, just answer "I don't know" and everything is fine. Perhaps some other can answer, or perhaps i ...[text shortened]... ockery, then just don't listen to me. there are always others who perhaps can answer a question.

You should know that these type of questions do not always have direct answers. Even Jesus had to give indirect answers to questions or respond with a question from those that tried to trick Him. Obviously, I can only give my opinion, which to you is not an answer. Therefore, the only answer you will accept is "I don't know." So what is the purpose of the question in the first place?

Originally posted by RJHinds
You should know that these type of questions do not always have direct answers. Even Jesus had to give indirect answers to questions or respond with a question from those that tried to trick Him. Obviously, I can only give my opinion, which to you is not an answer. Therefore, the only answer you will accept is "I don't know." So what is the purpose of the question in the first place?

Now we're talking, now this is friendly. Can we stay in this mode?

I know that not every question has an easy answer. But there is a bunch of people here, intelligent people, people with insights, people who perhaps has studied these kind of paradoxes, and has an answer. The next thing is to explain this answer so everyone can understand it. I have then the choice to accept the answer or give more questions that explains it further. that doesn't mean that I dismiss the answer altogether, but rather that I want to know more about some weak points.

Because the very reason I ask a question is that I want to know an answer. answers to easy questions I can google of my own. The trickier one I have to ask people that have more insights than me. If someone cannot answer a particular question, then he is not a silly dumb one, just that he doesn't know the answer.

This seems to be a paradox. Christians respecting people that dismiss Jesus divinity, and at the same time dismissing people that accept Jesus as a great prophet. Accepting that you can be gods own pet people yet dismissing his first born son who died for everyone’s sins, right?
That seems to me as a paradox. If there are no answers, then I have to accept that. but I will still be searching for a good answer.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Oh, of course. But Paul know nothing about the present day. And we are now, aren't we?

So you say that the jewish peopl is the chosen people by god. that means in my head the chosen people has a special relationship to god, right?
If a christian doesn't believe in the divinity of Jesus then he is not loved by god and this will show clearly if he will ...[text shortened]... ous. Therefore when you say that the jews are right and wrong at the same time, that puzzles me.

RJH is right. The Jews are God's 'chosen people' and yes, they did not recognize the Messiah. This will be ameliorated at Christ's second coming when He arrives as the warrior Messiah the Jews expected the first time, and He will be accepted by the Jews as the Messiah at that time. All will see Him, and all will know who He is.

Your argument trying to link the ideas of Jews being the chosen people and they still got the Messiah-ship of Jesus wrong, so either they must not be the chosen people or they didn't get it wrong, doesn't hold water. Yes, they are the chosen people and yes, they still got the Messiah-ship of Jesus wrong. It wouldn't be the first time the Jews got something wrong. And they've paid handsomely as a people for every time they 'got it wrong'. First there was the Babylonian Exile. Then came the destruction of the Temple, twice. Then there was the Holocaust.

Just because they are 'God's chosen people' doesn't mean they have to get everything 'right'.

Originally posted by Suzianne
RJH is right. The Jews are God's 'chosen people' and yes, they did not recognize the Messiah. This will be ameliorated at Christ's second coming when He arrives as the warrior Messiah the Jews expected the first time, and He will be accepted by the Jews as the Messiah at that time. All will see Him, and all will know who He is.

Your argument trying to ...[text shortened]...

Just because they are 'God's chosen people' doesn't mean they have to get everything 'right'.

really, then if they are Gods chosen people how will you explain this verse,

(Matthew 21:42, 43) Jesus said to them: “Did you never read in the Scriptures, ‘The stone that the builders rejected is the one that has become the chief cornerstone. From Jehovah this has come to be, and it is marvelous in our eyes’? This is why I say to you, The kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits.

and this, which Peter said not to Jews but to Christians,

(1 Peter 2:9, 10) But you are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies” of the one that called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. For you were once not a people, but are now God’s people; you were those who had not been shown mercy, but are now those who have been shown mercy.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
really, then if they are Gods chosen people how will you explain this verse,

(Matthew 21:42, 43) Jesus said to them: “Did you never read in the Scriptures, ‘The stone that the builders rejected is the one that has become the chief cornerstone. From Jehovah this has come to be, and it is marvelous in our eyes’? This is why I say to you, [b]The king ...[text shortened]... eople; you were those who had not been shown mercy, but are now those who have been shown mercy.

The purpose of Christ's redeeming sacrifice on the cross was to include Gentiles in the salvation. The Jews were 'already' God's chosen people; Christ died so that others, the Gentiles mainly, were allowed to be gifted with Grace.

Must the Gentiles be so greedy that they now consider themselves to have supplanted the Jews as 'God's Chosen People'?

I must remind you that 1 Peter was written in an era of Christian persecution.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
really, then if they are Gods chosen people how will you explain this verse,

(Matthew 21:42, 43) Jesus said to them: “Did you never read in the Scriptures, ‘The stone that the builders rejected is the one that has become the chief cornerstone. From Jehovah this has come to be, and it is marvelous in our eyes’? This is why I say to you, [b]The king ...[text shortened]... eople; you were those who had not been shown mercy, but are now those who have been shown mercy.

I know you JWs like to use replacement theology to put your group in place of the people of Israel, however, that is not supported by a complete reading of scripture. The apostle Paul writes against this very idea in Romans 11.

Originally posted by Suzianne
The purpose of Christ's redeeming sacrifice on the cross was to include Gentiles in the salvation. The Jews were 'already' God's chosen people; Christ died so that others, the Gentiles mainly, were allowed to be gifted with Grace.

Must the Gentiles be so greedy that they now consider themselves to have supplanted the Jews as 'God's Chosen People'?

I must remind you that 1 Peter was written in an era of Christian persecution.

You have failed to explain a single point. The Scripture states that the Jews as a people were rejected by God that is what taking the Kingdom from them and giving it to a nation producing its fruits means or if not you will explain what it does mean seeing that you failed to address it the first time. That the christians were under persecution does not negate the fact that Peter termed them a chosen nation, does it nor have any relevence whatsoever to them being a new chosen nation does it.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I know you JWs like to use replacement theology to put your group in place of the people of Israel, however, that is not supported by a complete reading of scripture. The apostle Paul writes against this very idea in Romans 11.

There were two scriptures cited if you cannot even comprehend what is being asked how can you even hope to formulate a rational and cohesive reply or will you be content to post more babble and drool like the brain dead zombie you evidently purport to be? Jesus states that the Kingdom will be taken from the Jews and given to a people producing its fruit, Peter identifies that nation as the newly formed Christian congregation or you will explain just what those verses do mean or you can continue to drool and babble.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
You have failed to explain a single point. The Scripture states that the Jews as a people were rejected by God that is what taking the Kingdom from them and giving it to a nation producing its fruits means or if not you will explain what it does mean seeing that you failed to address it the first time. That the christians were under persecution doe ...[text shortened]... sen nation, does it nor have any relevence whatsoever to them being a new chosen nation does it.

I can't argue with children, when they lack the ideation necessary to formulate good arguments. I answered your question, it is up to you to discern the answer in my post. Maybe, learning to read would be a good first step.

Again, RJH is right. Just because you want to supplant the Jews as 'God's Chosen People' doesn't mean you do.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
There were two scriptures cited if you cannot even comprehend what is being asked how can you even hope to formulate a rational and cohesive reply or will you be content to post more babble and drool like the brain dead zombie you evidently purport to be? Jesus states that the Kingdom will be taken from the Jews and given to a people producing its f ...[text shortened]... tion or you will explain just what those verses do mean or you can continue to drool and babble.

Your argument is exactly the argument I've been peppering you with since the beginning, when you continue to ignore the wisdom in front of your face.

If you think these verses point to the JW organization or the WT corporation, then you are sadly mistaken, as is most of your man-made dogma. 'Those verses', as you call them, are to a people under heavy persecution. What don't you understand about that?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
There were two scriptures cited if you cannot even comprehend what is being asked how can you even hope to formulate a rational and cohesive reply or will you be content to post more babble and drool like the brain dead zombie you evidently purport to be? Jesus states that the Kingdom will be taken from the Jews and given to a people producing its f ...[text shortened]... tion or you will explain just what those verses do mean or you can continue to drool and babble.

I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew.

(Romans 11:1-2 NKJV)

Originally posted by Suzianne
I can't argue with children, when they lack the ideation necessary to formulate good arguments. I answered your question, it is up to you to discern the answer in my post.

Again, RJH is right. Just because you want to supplant the Jews as 'God's Chosen People' doesn't mean you do.

You are not being asked to argue you are being asked to explain a verse which in no uncertain terms is a direct refutation of an assertion that you made. Jesus stated to the the Jews that the Kingdom of God would be taken from them and given to another nation, Peter identified that nation as the the Christian congregation or just exactly what did he mean by the term a chosen nation. Your evasion and babbling about irrelevancy is almost obligatory when the scriptures once again refute your assertions, the Jews as a people have been rejected that is what Jesus states which had nothing to do with my claims of anything I almost forgot for a brief monent just how incapable of rational thought you are.

Originally posted by RJHinds
[b]I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew.

(Romans 11:1-2 NKJV)[/b]

Yes God has not cast them off as individuals as many of them became Christians but the fact remains that as a nation the Kingdom was removed from them and given to another nation that was producing the fruitage of the kingdom or how will you explain Christ and Peters words? Or will you simply continue to ignore those verses in the hope that they go away.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
You are not being asked to argue you are being asked to explain a verse which in no uncertain terms is a direct refutation of an assertion that you made. Jesus stated to the the Jews that the Kingdom of God would be taken from them and given to another nation, Peter identified that nation as the the Christian congregation or just exactly what did he ...[text shortened]... s of anything I almost forgot for a brief monent just how incapable of rational thought you are.

Please. How can I argue with you when you cannot even understand a simple verse of scripture such as Colossians 1:15? You will simply naysay everything I say and sing "la la la la la" with your fingers in your ears. Your man-made dogma refutes everything biblical yet you call me pagan. I am full to overflowing with your inanities. I have no more time for you or your juvenile attempts at "logic".