It's outrageous!

Originally posted by Proper Knob
It was me who offered to send Rob a book on evolution. It is Jerry Coyne's Why evolution is true.

Sounds pretty good from the Amazon reviews. It is obviously aimed at people like you, Robbie, Kelly & Karoly but whether it would convince you is another matter. Cognitive Dissonance may well kick in and push you every deeper into your current views.

It would undoubtedly be more up to date than Origin of Species though (both in the more recent evidence and in the writing style) and will deal explicitly with the standard creationist arguments.

I would advise you to read it, especially as it is being offered for free.

--- Penguin.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
you can still drink and be a veggie me thinks 🙂

Thank god for that. My mouth was getting dry.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes that is true, i do think its insidious (with reason and reference i hasten to add) but there is no merit it me trying to convince you of its truthfulness or otherwise, all i can really do is point out the ill effects of its adoption, which is something quite different.

For as long as you and i frequent this site the offer will stand. If you ever have the courage/curiosity (call it what you will) to step out from your comfort zone (or 'collective'😉, let me know and i shall pop the book in the post.

Originally posted by lausey
Thank god for that. My mouth was getting dry.

its true, is it not, beer is made from wheat and malt and wine is made from grapes! is yeast not a fungus? nothing better than some pasta and lashings of red wine or some veggie curry, saag paneer (spinach and cheese) with a tall glass of cold beer!

Originally posted by Proper Knob
For as long as you and i frequent this site the offer will stand. If you ever have the courage/curiosity (call it what you will) to step out from your comfort zone (or 'collective'😉, let me know and i shall pop the book in the post.

thankyou and as long as you and I frequent the site i hold out the hope that you will reside in paradise 🙂

Hi Knobby.

Why don't you serialise the book in the forum. One page per day.
Put it under the heading Chess Openings it will suck in 100's of readers.

Robbie you can serialise The Bible, one page per day.
Put it under the heading Chess Openings II it will suckin even more readers.

Don't put it under Endings else it will be thread bare.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Sorry, but that's nothing but a lot of bluster.

I can explain the diversification of life on this planet by the process of evolution. How do you explain the diversification of life on this planet? How did God do it?

Don't skimp on the details.

The species dont even exist without the soul the life giver.........so without accepting the reality of the soul, then explaining anything further of the species is futile.

Understanding the position of the soul is considered basics, and if basics are not understood then I can discuss no further.........its like trying to discuss higher mathematics when the person is struggling with their 2 times table.

Originally posted by Dasa
The species dont even exist without the soul the life giver.........so without accepting the reality of the soul, then explaining anything further of the species is futile.

Understanding the position of the soul is considered basics, and if basics are not understood then I can discuss no further.........its like trying to discuss higher mathematics when the person is struggling with their 2 times table.

So you can't explain to me................what a surprise!!

Originally posted by Dasa
The Bible has 10.000 errors in its pages.....and Vedanta has none, so how is it possible to compare.

What is this other authority you speak of?

I speak of the authority that is you!( from within yourself)
For even to accept Vedanta as authority, you must first allow you mind to make that decision. So , even if you say the authority comes from vedanta, it still has to be authorized by you for you to pass on the info that vedanta is the authority. We are not robots. We have free will, and this free will must be employed to say anything off your own bat. Capice?

Surely you are not just a robot repeating stuff from the Vedanta ? Surely you have approved this authority yourself before you tell the forum?

Anyway, I believe there is a positive way to interpret the bible where an adept can be helped in their "spiritual quest". It is not the bible that is the problem, it is the followers of the bible and their subsequent negative, false interpretations that need to be looked at-not the scource material.

So if the bible has 10 000 errors in it , as you claim, would not an intelligent, spiritually evolved person be able to recognize these errors and cross check the biblical (universal) truths with other scriptures/sutras?

There is no way you can say "read only this one book and it is 100% correct". What is the use of having to think or contemplate or try anything else if the answers are already given. Where is the learning? Where is the gradual enlightenment, that you have mentioned before?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
ok, whatever, if it appears to you as such, then so be it!

"Whatever" is the absolute worst words my kids can use when conversing with me.
Of course there is a context where that word is the most appropriate,accurate word to illustrate a point, but I would have a guess and say that the context in which you were using it to reply to Proper Knob would've been one of those instances where you are just brushing off a question, and reply only to reply.

After all "whatever" means just that , and said to the wrong person in the wrong context it can have very dire consequences. Worse than the worse of derogatory words.
Of course this is my take on that word, but I'm proud of myself for coming up with this origonal thought (about this word).

Now how would you feel if I was to reply to a door-knocker to one of their questions with a "whatever" ? Do you think they would feel encouraged to continue their "doorway sermon" in the light of that initial response?

Originally posted by Penguin
Sounds pretty good from the Amazon reviews. It is obviously aimed at people like you, Robbie, Kelly & Karoly but whether it would convince you is another matter. Cognitive Dissonance may well kick in and push you every deeper into your current views.

It would undoubtedly be more up to date than Origin of Species though (both in the more recent evidence an ...[text shortened]... s.

I would advise you to read it, especially as it is being offered for free.

--- Penguin.

Me???

I have no problem with evolution.

I just have this crazy notion that evolution and "creationism" can both be right.

But forget creationism, this is my reponse to you suggesting I need to read about evolution as if I didn't believe in it.
I have no problem with the findings of scientists that have shown how the species have evolved. (Nor with the Big Bang theory ,in general)

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I speak of the authority that is you!( from within yourself)
For even to accept Vedanta as authority, you must first allow you mind to make that decision. So , even if you say the authority comes from vedanta, it still has to be authorized by you for you to pass on the info that vedanta is the authority. We are not robots. We have free will, and this f ...[text shortened]... . Where is the learning? Where is the gradual enlightenment, that you have mentioned before?

When you speak of the spirituality within....why cant the withinness guide you to embrace the Vedanta.

Now......you say that everything is already answered for you in Vedanta if you just accept Vedanta, but that's like saying that the American Medical Journal for Surgery should not be read or followed by doctors, because it wont let them invent their own techniques for operating on people.

Have I not said that there is a process to follow to raise the consciousness to the platform of love of God..... well this does not happen over night and it requires meditation, contemplation, service, study, refraining from sinful activities and calling on the Lords name, and all this constitutes living the spiritual life.

When one lives this life then spiritual realization develops and the persons consciousness changes.

The written word of Vedanta is but words printed on a page, and it is when those words are followed then the spiritual realization follows..............but if those words are not followed then there is no realization or advancement.

Originally posted by Dasa
When you speak of the spirituality within....why cant the withinness guide you to embrace the Vedanta.

Now......you say that everything is already answered for you in Vedanta if you just accept Vedanta, but that's like saying that the American Medical Journal for Surgery should not be read or followed by doctors, because it wont let them invent their own tec ...[text shortened]... s..............but if those words are not followed then there is no realization or advancement.

The withinness can guide you to embrace the Vedanta. I never said it couldn't.
What I said was that "One size does not fit all",ie. that Vedanta isn't going to be the answer for everyone.
For example the thread you wrote about the truth of lord bhudda was very misleading.
If someone finds their inner spirituality, (that which is realized by inner conviction of the non-verbal adept on the right track), does it really matter whether they got there via Vedanta or Bhuddism?
Surely the end result is what matters and not the means of how they got there.
A self-realized, awakened person will need rely on no other authority outside of him/herself.
Until then perhaps Vedanta is the way for that person. But to tell everyone that that is the ONLY way for everyone is just the same as saying that only Jesus can "save" you.

I understand the rest of your post, but if you cant see that there is more than one way to skin a cat, (a cornerstone of Zen Bhuddism), then we have reached an impasse.
We cannot continue unless you open up to the possibility that one may "return to godhead" by more than one way.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
The withinness can guide you to embrace the Vedanta. I never said it couldn't.
What I said was that "One size does not fit all",ie. that Vedanta isn't going to be the answer for everyone.
For example the thread you wrote about the truth of lord bhudda was very misleading.
If someone finds their inner spirituality, (that which is realized by inner c ...[text shortened]... ss you open up to the possibility that one may "return to godhead" by more than one way.

Not one person can return to Godhead without embracing the knowledge of Vedanta, because Vedanta comes from the Person who resides at Godhead (God self)

The Personality of Godhead is presenting Vedanta to all those persons who are desiring to return home to Godhead......and the Personality of Godhead is the goal of the spiritual life......there is no other goal.

Comparing Christianity to Vedanta is like comparing black to white

All other processes, will only have the person return to this world of suffering time and time again.

If the only goal of the spiritual life, is to return home and revive that eternal relationship with the personality of Godhead.......then why would any genuine devotee go anywhere else to find there way..... anywhere else will not know the way and do not know the way.

You just have to study all the other processes on offer, and you can clearly see they all teach error......and error will misdirect you.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
"Whatever" is the absolute worst words my kids can use when conversing with me.
Of course there is a context where that word is the most appropriate,accurate word to illustrate a point, but I would have a guess and say that the context in which you were using it to reply to Proper Knob would've been one of those instances where you are just brushing of ...[text shortened]... l encouraged to continue their "doorway sermon" in the light of that initial response?

First of all we are not door knockers, we are trying to find people that are interested in learning about scripture, the door and/or knocker are purely coincidental, we are interested in people. Secondly in this context the use of the term 'whatever', is more of an expression of exhaustion, one in which all avenues have been exhausted and resignation has set in, feel free to assign it any other value you wish. Lastly we do not deliver sermons, we try to engage people in conversation so as to ascertain their point of view, that is, to listen to their opinions. If you want a sermon with no personal interaction go to church.