James 2

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes but Paul clearly speaks of admonishing a man a second and third time and if he is unrepentant, then he should be removed.

(1 Corinthians 5:6-13) . . .your cause for boasting is not fine. Do you not know that a little leaven ferments the whole lump?  Clear away the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, according as you are free from ferment. ...[text shortened]... outside? [b]“Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.”

how are we to understand this?[/b]

It is in direct conflict with the teaching from James (heavens no,,, a contradiction).

seriously though, it has to do with context. Paul was reprimanding them for "winking" at an egregious crime. His censure was directed at the church leadership, the following link will provide excellent commentary on this and the preceding chapter.
http://www.christnotes.org/commentary.php?com=mhc&b=46&c=5

James teaches us to act with mercy and love toward all who enter God's house.

Originally posted by duecer
It is in direct conflict with the teaching from James (heavens no,,, a contradiction).

seriously though, it has to do with context. Paul was reprimanding them for "winking" at an egregious crime. His censure was directed at the church leadership, the following link will provide excellent commentary on this and the preceding chapter.
http://www.christnotes ...[text shortened]... mhc&b=46&c=5

James teaches us to act with mercy and love toward all who enter God's house.

a contradiction, nope that can never be, not in a squillion years! i feel my friend that you are letting your sentimentality over rule your sense of justice.

Mercy exults over judgement appears to me to mean that any judgement that the congregation renders must me tempered with mercy, in that we should always try to seek the rehabilitation of the erring one, giving them practical and scriptural help, even as a shepherd does to an ailing sheep. however, if they refuse the help, will not be admonished and are completely unrepentant then as Paul states, they should be removed, for God is not one to be mocked, and the congregation shall remain clean. Remember my friend, that the bride of Christ is as a chaste virgin, unblemished, prepared for her husband. if we allow such ungodly conduct, can we truly state that it is unblemished and free from corruption?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Not true, you cannot buy your way into the Kingdom of God.
Kelly

Sure you can. After all, didn't the Catholic church once preach you could buy your way out of purgatory? Perhaps Rwingett could even be a priest since he apparently agrees!!

Originally posted by whodey
Sure you can. After all, didn't the Catholic church once preach you could buy your way out of purgatory? Perhaps Rwingett could even be a priest since he apparently agrees!!

Well I suggest you take that up with the Catholic church, scripturally
speaking no. As I pointed out here to Rwingett I believe, whose
kingdom are you attempting to get into? If it is the Catholic church
than by all means go by what it said, if it is Rwingett's do what he says.
elly

Originally posted by whodey
Sure you can. After all, didn't the Catholic church once preach you could buy your way out of purgatory? Perhaps Rwingett could even be a priest since he apparently agrees!!

No, probably they were talking about grace, merit, prayers, masses, but not money.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
they were not to entangle themselves in the monetary system

this is interesting, for what is the basis for this statement, for surely if they were to make a living, this could not be avoided. for example Paul, although highly educated, was a tent maker, for it provided sustenance and covering, with a little left over to distribute to someone in need!

They were to have a "gift economy." I will allow myself one scriptural reference here:

And all who believed were together and had all things in common; and they sold their possessions and goods and distributed them to all, as any had need. And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they partook of food with glad and generous hearts, praising god and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved. (Acts 2:44-47)

From this passage we see that the people have renounced private property* and have bonded together into their own communal group. Each person contributes to the common stock and draws from that stock as he has need. Some people grow food, some are artisans, some are herdsmen, they all practice their trade and contribute the product of their labor to the community's common stock in a moneyless, gift economy, and they draw from it as they have need. Within the community there is no monetary exchange. If they get to the point where they become self-sufficient and can produce all the goods they need amongst themselves then they can secede from the world's monetary economy altogether. And as the community continues to grow "the Lord adds to their number day by day those who are being saved." This is the process of the kingdom being realized.

*Mankind's original sin was private property. At the time of creation, god created the earth as a common treasury for all. Man existed in peace and equality with enough goods to meet all their needs. But when mankind began to fence in portions of this common treasury and call it their own private property, they had sinned against god and they fell from grace. Strife, inequality and starvation soon followed.

Lol, if i didn't know you better id say you were taking the rip. the first sin was private property, Lol, its brilliant!

The passage that you refer to in the book of acts is really really interesting, but i do not think that persons were under duress to surrender their private property, only willingly and if the need compelled them to and what is more, the instance that you mention was the result of unusual circumstances, almost like a relief effort, for many had come to Jerusalem for the the passover celebration and heard the word and wished t learn more, thus they needed to be fed and looked after etc etc etc.

The fact that Peter states to the ill fated Ananias, “As long as it remained with you did it not remain yours, and after it was sold did it not continue in your control?” Acts 5:4, shows that the practice was voluntary, not obligatory.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Lol, if i didn't know you better id say you were taking the rip. the first sin was private property, Lol, its brilliant!

The passage that you refer to in the book of acts is really really interesting, but i do not think that persons were under duress to surrender their private property, only willingly and if the need compelled them to and what ...[text shortened]... not continue in your control?” Acts 5:4, shows that the practice was voluntary, not obligatory.

Of course it's voluntary. Nobody is forcing you to inaugurate the kingdom. It's your voluntary choice to do so. But it's the only way the kingdom will be inaugurated.

My interpretation is heavily influenced by the writings of Gerrard Winstanley, founder of the True Levellers, or the Diggers as they're more commonly known.

http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~rbear/digger.html

Originally posted by rwingett
Of course it's voluntary. Nobody is forcing you to inaugurate the kingdom. It's your voluntary choice to do so. But it's the only way the kingdom will be inaugurated.

My interpretation is heavily influenced by the writings of Gerrard Winstanley, founder of the True Levellers, or the Diggers as they're more commonly known.

http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~rbear/digger.html

mmm, how is this process to take place my friend for it appears to me to be quite a logistical feat, for everyone to change inwardly and thus transform themselves into a kingdom in their midst.

i am not saying that it is impossible, nor am i saying that it is un biblical, for it is clearly established in scripture that we must succumb to a personality metamorphosis and put on what is termed by Paul, the 'knew personality', but in your opinion, how will this take place, logistically?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
mmm, how is this process to take place my friend for it appears to me to be quite a logistical feat, for everyone to change inwardly and thus transform themselves into a kingdom in their midst.

i am not saying that it is impossible, nor am i saying that it is un biblical, for it is clearly established in scripture that we must succumb to a perso ...[text shortened]... by Paul, the 'knew personality', but in your opinion, how will this take place, logistically?

Follow the example of the Hutterites.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutterites

Originally posted by rwingett
Follow the example of the Hutterites.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutterites

Interesting phenomena, but sadly nope, how would the gospel of the Christ be spread? thus a farmer living near the Hindu Kush would have practically no chance of hearing the message of the Christ unless someone was sent! Christianity is for humanity, not to be hidden away in communes!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Interesting phenomena, but sadly nope, how would the gospel of the Christ be spread? thus a farmer living near the Hindu Kush would have practically no chance of hearing the message of the Christ unless someone was sent! Christianity is for humanity, not to be hidden away in communes!

The Hutterites have missionaries. But I don't believe in missionary work. I think they are to lead by example. In 125 years their population has grown from 400 to 50,000 people. That's a pretty good growth rate. How many people will that be in another 125 years at that rate of growth?

But I don't think the Hutterites are perfect. Far from it. But they're on the right track. One could tweak their basic approach to achieve better results.

Originally posted by rwingett
The Hutterites have missionaries. But I don't believe in missionary work. I think they are to lead by example. In 125 years their population has grown from 400 to 50,000 people. That's a pretty good growth rate. How many people will that be in another 125 years at that rate of growth?

But I don't think the Hutterites are perfect. Far from it. But they're on the right track. One could tweak their basic approach to achieve better results.

At that rate of growth they would have 6,250,000 people by the year 2,134.

Originally posted by rwingett
At that rate of growth they would have 6,250,000 people by the year 2,134.

Lol, they are more prolific than my bunny rabbits!

Originally posted by KellyJay
Well I suggest you take that up with the Catholic church, scripturally
speaking no. As I pointed out here to Rwingett I believe, whose
kingdom are you attempting to get into? If it is the Catholic church
than by all means go by what it said, if it is Rwingett's do what he says.
elly

"What you bind on earth, I will bind in heaven'

The Catholic church used to sell indulgances.