1. Joined
    03 Sep '06
    Moves
    9895
    13 Nov '06 07:32
    Last night I was listening to a debate between a Muslim , Jehovah Witness and Christian on PalTalk. They were talking about Jesus Divinity. Of cource the Muslim, and the Jahovah Witness were in one side and the Christian in the other site. Althougth the Jahovah Witness belive in Bible as the Christian, the Christian was not able to prove his point.

    Any way I want to understand what Christian think about Jehovah Witness? Are they christians? They do belive in Jesus Christ as a saviour but they don't belive he is GOD, Are they considered Christians?
  2. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    13 Nov '06 14:172 edits
    Originally posted by ahosyney
    Last night I was listening to a debate between a Muslim , Jehovah Witness and Christian on PalTalk. They were talking about Jesus Divinity. Of cource the Muslim, and the Jahovah Witness were in one side and the Christian in the other site. Althougth the Jahovah Witness belive in Bible as the Christian, the Christian was not able to prove his point.

    Any ...[text shortened]... e in Jesus Christ as a saviour but they don't belive he is GOD, Are they considered Christians?
    For the most part they are considered a cult because they question the authenticity of the Bible and the teaching in the Bible about the divinity of Christ, so much so that they even wrote their own Bible to counter the original. As a result, they are not encouraged to read the original text without supervision or religious council to interpret it for them. Sound familiar?
  3. London
    Joined
    02 Mar '04
    Moves
    36066
    14 Nov '06 18:27
    Originally posted by whodey
    As a result, they are not encouraged to read the original text without supervision or religious council to interpret it for them. Sound familiar?
    Not really.
  4. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    14 Nov '06 18:333 edits
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    Not really.
    It has been my experience with Muslims that they will not read the Bible at face value because they believe it to be corrupted just as the Jehova's Witnesses do as well. They therefore require guidance by thier religious teachers on what to believe and not believe in the Bible. Both agree that it has been corrupted somehow but for some reason cannot agree as to how or when. They then each go out and write another Bible to make such "corrections", however, both corrected Bibles differ as night does from day. Go figure?
  5. London
    Joined
    02 Mar '04
    Moves
    36066
    14 Nov '06 18:46
    Originally posted by whodey
    It has been my experience with Muslims that they will not read the Bible at face value because they believe it to be corrupted just as the Jehova's Witnesses do as well. They therefore require guidance by thier religious teachers on what to believe and not believe in the Bible. Both agree that it has been corrupted somehow but for some reason cannot agree a ...[text shortened]... such "corrections", however, both corrected Bibles differ as night does from day. Go figure?
    I don't think I've ever heard of a Muslim translation of the Bible.

    I know of the JW Bibles though. Bible verses that are doctrinally inconvenient for the Watchtower society are routinely falsely translated; you have verses that were quite orthodox in the 1954 edition which have been altered in the 1986 edition.

    It can be funny at times -- some JW evangelists (quite nice chaps personally) carry interlinear Bibles with them with the correct original Greek!
  6. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    14 Nov '06 19:401 edit
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    I don't think I've ever heard of a Muslim translation of the Bible.

    I know of the JW Bibles though. Bible verses that are doctrinally inconvenient for the Watchtower society are routinely falsely translated; you have verses that were quite orthodox in the 1954 edition which have been altered in the 1986 edition.

    It can be funny at times -- some ...[text shortened]... ite nice chaps personally) carry interlinear Bibles with them with the correct original Greek!
    When I say new Bible I am referring to the Quran. Granted, it is not a direct translation of the Bible but it does dispute teachings within the Bible and thus retranslates the Bible from afar.

    As far as the JW's Bible, it is very close to the original translation of the Bible except for areas that refer to the trinity or imply the trinity. They edit those portions. And you are correct, they use the original Greek to try and give the air of authenticity to the New Testament. The only problem, however, is that the Greek terms are also corrected.

    Hey, while we are at it we might as well throw the Mormons in the mix as well. They also wrote their own Bible. However, I don't believe they dispute the original Bible, rather, they simply refer to the new Bible as the more enlightened addition. LOL.
  7. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    In the Gazette
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    39559
    14 Nov '06 19:482 edits
    Originally posted by whodey
    For the most part they are considered a cult because they question the authenticity of the Bible and the teaching in the Bible about the divinity of Christ, so much so that they even wrote their own Bible to counter the original. As a result, they are not encouraged to read the original text without supervision or religious council to interpret it for them. Sound familiar?
    Don't you ever get sick of spewing ignorant and incorrect information?

    From the Watchtower website: You must study the Bible and meditate on it, at the same time asking for God's spirit to direct you.

    http://www.watchtower.org/e/jt/index.htm?article=article_03.htm
  8. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    In the Gazette
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    39559
    14 Nov '06 19:482 edits
    Originally posted by whodey
    When I say new Bible I am referring to the Quran. Granted, it is not a direct translation of the Bible but it does dispute teachings within the Bible and thus retranslates the Bible from afar.

    As far as the JW's Bible, it is very close to the original translation of the Bible except for areas that refer to the trinity or imply the trinity. They edit thos inal Bible, rather, they simply refer to the new Bible as the more enlightened addition. LOL.
    Ditto.

    Question:
    Are you Christians?

    Answer:
    Gordon B. Hinckley, President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, said:

    "We are Christians in a very real sense and that is coming to be more and more widely recognized. Once upon a time people everywhere said we are not Christians. They have come to recognize that we are, and that we have a very vital and dynamic religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ."

    "We, of course, accept Jesus Christ as our Leader, our King, our Savior...the dominant figure in the history of the world, the only perfect Man who ever walked the earth, the living Son of the living God. He is our Savior and our Redeemer through whose atoning sacrifice has come the opportunity of eternal life."

    "Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints pray and worship in the name of Jesus Christ. He is the center of our faith and the head of our Church. The Book of Mormon is Another Testament of Jesus Christ and witnesses of His divinity, His life, and His Atonement."

    http://www.mormon.org/question/faq/category/answer/0,9777,1601-1-55-16,00.html
  9. Joined
    03 Sep '06
    Moves
    9895
    14 Nov '06 20:471 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    When I say new Bible I am referring to the Quran. Granted, it is not a direct translation of the Bible but it does dispute teachings within the Bible and thus retranslates the Bible from afar.

    As far as the JW's Bible, it is very close to the original translation of the Bible except for areas that refer to the trinity or imply the trinity. They edit thos inal Bible, rather, they simply refer to the new Bible as the more enlightened addition. LOL.
    Although what you say about Quran is far from the truth, because there is no any similarity between Quran and the Bible between your hands even in the Major hestorical facts.

    As Muslims we belive that Quran is the Word of Allah (GOD). As well we belive that the Torah of Mosses and Gospel of Jesus both are words of Allah (GOD). As the three books are from the same source they should agreed on main concepts like the Unity of Allah and that he is the only one to be worshiped.

    But can you tell me today that the Torah exist today is the same one that Allah give to Mosses or the Gospels exist today can be referenced to Jesus himself. I doute you can do that. And that is the main point.

    The spirt of Quran is totaly different from the Bible.

    There is a very important point that make Quran very different. Quran is written in Arabic. And only accepted as a word of GOD in Arabic. Any translation of Quran is not considered Quran but just a translation. And the Quran any Muslim knows today is exactly the same one that was revealed to the Prophet from Allah word by word.

    There is a verse in Quran say:
    Al Hijr
    015.009
    YUSUFALI: We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).
    PICKTHAL: Lo! We, even We, reveal the Reminder, and lo! We verily are its Guardian.
    SHAKIR: Surely We have revealed the Reminder and We will most surely be its guardian.

    As you can see Allah himself is responsible from keeping the message of Quran from corruption and guess what, no one for 1400 years managed to modifiy a single word of the Quran.

    Can you say something like that about the Bible?
  10. Joined
    03 Sep '06
    Moves
    9895
    15 Nov '06 02:44
    Originally posted by whodey
    It has been my experience with Muslims that they will not read the Bible at face value because they believe it to be corrupted just as the Jehova's Witnesses do as well. They therefore require guidance by thier religious teachers on what to believe and not believe in the Bible. Both agree that it has been corrupted somehow but for some reason cannot agree a ...[text shortened]... such "corrections", however, both corrected Bibles differ as night does from day. Go figure?
    A small note in this Post:

    Muslims don't read the Bible. Islamic Schools and Universities don't teach the Bible. Only Branches that are realted to Christianity and Religion comparison may teach the some portions of the Bible. Some Muslim scholars are interested in studying the Bible and answering it but they are not many.

    As I'm interested in studing Christianity and listened to the teacher I talked with you about. But Normal Muslims are not interested in reading it and don't worry about it. I don't think I know any of my friend or any one of my family did read the Bible or want to read it.
  11. Standard memberWulebgr
    Angler
    River City
    Joined
    08 Dec '04
    Moves
    16907
    15 Nov '06 03:10
    Originally posted by ahosyney
    Last night I was listening to a debate between a Muslim , Jehovah Witness and Christian on PalTalk. They were talking about Jesus Divinity. Of cource the Muslim, and the Jahovah Witness were in one side and the Christian in the other site. Althougth the Jahovah Witness belive in Bible as the Christian, the Christian was not able to prove his point.

    Any ...[text shortened]... e in Jesus Christ as a saviour but they don't belive he is GOD, Are they considered Christians?
    When Jehovah's Witnesses were trying to convert me, they based one of their arguments on alleged differences between Theos and Theon, insisting that the latter is distinct from God (whom they identified as the former).

    I tried to explain the difference between the subject of a sentence and a direct object, which take different endings in Greek, as in other European languages, but failed. Elementary grammar was beyond the scope of their imaginations.
  12. Standard memberRBHILL
    Acts 13:48
    California
    Joined
    21 May '03
    Moves
    223256
    15 Nov '06 03:54
    Originally posted by ahosyney
    Last night I was listening to a debate between a Muslim , Jehovah Witness and Christian on PalTalk. They were talking about Jesus Divinity. Of cource the Muslim, and the Jahovah Witness were in one side and the Christian in the other site. Althougth the Jahovah Witness belive in Bible as the Christian, the Christian was not able to prove his point.

    Any ...[text shortened]... e in Jesus Christ as a saviour but they don't belive he is GOD, Are they considered Christians?
    JW's think that Jesus is the arkangel michael.
  13. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    15 Nov '06 04:32
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Don't you ever get sick of spewing ignorant and incorrect information?

    From the Watchtower website: You must study the Bible and meditate on it, at the same time asking for God's spirit to direct you.

    http://www.watchtower.org/e/jt/index.htm?article=article_03.htm
    That may be what the web site says, however, I can tell you that I have talked with more than one JW. When I did they told me that they only study portions of the Bible that they are instructed to read at their meeting place or church. They are then given a study guide to explain to them how to interpret what they have studied. Have you ever talked to a JW yourself or are you simply accepting what they say on their web site. God forbid the thought that their web site would not be honest and upfront about how they operate. Now you tell me who is spewing out ignorant and incorrect information?
  14. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    15 Nov '06 04:36
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    JW's think that Jesus is the arkangel michael.
    Very true RB and they have zero evidence to back it up.
  15. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
    Joined
    09 Sep '01
    Moves
    26187
    15 Nov '06 04:44
    Originally posted by whodey
    Very true RB and they have zero evidence to back it up.
    Oh, like you have any evidence to back up anything you say? Give me a break.
Back to Top