Mark 3
Jesus went up on a mountainside and called to him those he wanted, and they came to him. 14 He appointed twelve[a] that they might be with him and that he might send them out to preach 15 and to have authority to drive out demons. 16 These are the twelve he appointed: Simon (to whom he gave the name Peter), 17 James son of Zebedee and his brother John (to them he gave the name Boanerges, which means “sons of thunder&rdquo😉, 18 Andrew, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James son of Alphaeus, Thaddaeus, Simon the Zealot 19 and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.
Jesus knew from the beginning that Judas would betray him. Jesus put Judas there so Judas would betray him. I think most of us would call this entrapment.
28 Aug 17
Matthew 26
Jesus replied, “The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me. 24 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.”
Judas was chosen to betray Jesus yet Jesus still says it would be better if Judas was not born.
28 Aug 17
Originally posted by @eladarFree will is gone.
Mark 3
[b]Jesus went up on a mountainside and called to him those he wanted, and they came to him. 14 He appointed twelve[a] that they might be with him and that he might send them out to preach 15 and to have authority to drive out demons. 16 These are the twelve he appointed: Simon (to whom he gave the name Peter), 17 James son of Zebedee and his brothe ...[text shortened]... Jesus put Judas there so Judas would betray him. I think most of us would call this entrapment.
Pre-destiny is the rule.
28 Aug 17
Originally posted by @eladarPerhaps judas raped Mary?
Mark 3
[b]Jesus went up on a mountainside and called to him those he wanted, and they came to him. 14 He appointed twelve[a] that they might be with him and that he might send them out to preach 15 and to have authority to drive out demons. 16 These are the twelve he appointed: Simon (to whom he gave the name Peter), 17 James son of Zebedee and his brothe ...[text shortened]... Jesus put Judas there so Judas would betray him. I think most of us would call this entrapment.
Originally posted by @eladarJudas should be treated as that hero he actually is! He sacrificed everything to fulfill the profecy!
Mark 3
[b]Jesus went up on a mountainside and called to him those he wanted, and they came to him. 14 He appointed twelve[a] that they might be with him and that he might send them out to preach 15 and to have authority to drive out demons. 16 These are the twelve he appointed: Simon (to whom he gave the name Peter), 17 James son of Zebedee and his brothe ...[text shortened]... Jesus put Judas there so Judas would betray him. I think most of us would call this entrapment.
Without him they wouldn't have found Jesus. Jesus would be non-crucified and there wouldn't be any christianity to come. We would all be jews!
28 Aug 17
Originally posted by @fabianfnasSounds a lot like how Mormons view Satan.
Judas should be treated as that hero he actually is! He sacrificed everything to fulfill the profecy!
Without him they wouldn't have found Jesus. Jesus would be non-crucified and there wouldn't be any christianity to come. We would all be jews!
28 Aug 17
Originally posted by @eladarI am sure you do! There were 12 that started with Him. 11 didn't betray Him that went through the same thing, saw the same things. Yet they were not stealing from the money bag as he did.
Mark 3
[b]Jesus went up on a mountainside and called to him those he wanted, and they came to him. 14 He appointed twelve[a] that they might be with him and that he might send them out to preach 15 and to have authority to drive out demons. 16 These are the twelve he appointed: Simon (to whom he gave the name Peter), 17 James son of Zebedee and his brothe ...[text shortened]... Jesus put Judas there so Judas would betray him. I think most of us would call this entrapment.
In this world you do what you will, be it good or bad. If you think it is entrapment then any dishonest man who finds a wallet, and keeps what he wants is entrapped by his dishonesty while an honest one does what he thinks he should.
This life shows us our faults and reveals what type of people we want to be, because we do have choices.
28 Aug 17
Originally posted by @kellyjayDid Jesus know Judas' heart when he chose Judas?
I am sure you do! There were 12 that started with Him. 11 didn't betray Him that went through the same thing, saw the same things. Yet they were not stealing from the money bag as he did.
In this world you do what you will, be it good or bad. If you think it is entrapment then any dishonest man who finds a wallet, and keeps what he wants is entrapped by ...[text shortened]... e shows us our faults and reveals what type of people we want to be, because we do have choices.
Did Jesus know Judas would betray him?
28 Aug 17
Originally posted by @eladarHe knows all of our hearts. He also warns us about how we conduct ourselves. Which would be meaningless if we had no choice in anything. Why say don't sin, repent, and come to me if no one could!
Did Jesus know Judas' heart when he chose Judas?
Did Jesus know Judas would betray him?
Sin entraps us Jesus sets us free.
Originally posted by @kellyjaySo Jesus chose Judas knowing that Judas would betray him. Jesus chose Judas to be the betrayer and yet Judas gets punished anyhow.
He knows all of our hearts. He also warns us about how we conduct ourselves. Which would be meaningless if we had no choice in anything. Why say don't sin, repent, and come to me if no one could!
Sin entraps us Jesus sets us free.
28 Aug 17
1 edit
Originally posted by @eladarFree will in general is the issue.
So Jesus chose Judas knowing that Judas would betray him. Jesus chose Judas to be the betrayer and yet Judas gets punished anyhow.
Do we have free will since God already knows what our free will is going to be?
From a human standpoint, it is hard understanding how this could be so since God made us who we are and he knew in advance how we would turn out. However, the other conundrum to consider is, if God is all powerful then there must have been a way to create free will even though he knew what the outcome would be, otherwise he is not all powerful.
In the case of Judas, he was probably lost regardless of being included in the plans of Jesus. Judas simply facilitated the mission to lay down the life of Jesus.
28 Aug 17
Originally posted by @whodeyJesus choosing Judas goes beyond free will. There were others who would not have betrayed Jesus could have chosen.
Free will in general is the issue.
Do we have free will since God already knows what our free will is going to be?
From a human standpoint, it is hard understanding how this could be so since God made us who we are and he knew in advance how we would turn out. However, the other conundrum to consider is, if God is all powerful then there must have bee ...[text shortened]... uded in the plans of Jesus. Judas simply facilitated the mission to lay down the life of Jesus.
28 Aug 17
Originally posted by @eladarEveryone chooses in this life, why do you think His followers should have been flawless knowing that everyone available to choose from was flawed?
Jesus choosing Judas goes beyond free will. There were others who would not have betrayed Jesus could have chosen.
Just because God knows doesn't mean you're not making the choice, one doesn't void the other. Unless you think God is not able to create a race in God's image who can make independent choices apart from God and Satan?
The only thing that binds us is our sin and hearts. Just as the only One to set us free is Jesus!