Jesus claimed to be God

Originally posted by @romans1009
If you’re looking for evidence of the power of God’s Holy Spirit, you have to look at how an individual life has been changed. You have to compare an individual’s life before he or she became a Christian to after, and “good works” are only part of it.

I don't dispute for one second that religious beliefs can have a profound effect on a believer. It might even inspire them to do 'good works'.

Originally posted by @fmf
I can't be bothered. If you found what I told you about life in Indonesia interesting, good. If not, fine. If you don't believe it, that's fine too.

Well you’re certainly not putting much effort into this discussion. Good thing I’m holding up my end - and your end too.

Originally posted by @fmf
I don't dispute for one second that religious beliefs can have a profound effect on a believer. It might even inspire them to do 'good works'.

Only a Christian would be inspired to do the greatest of all good works - sharing the Gospel and leading someone to Christ.

As for the effect of other religions on a person's behavior, that’s hard to discuss further without some examples and evidence, which you seem strangely unwilling to provide.

Originally posted by @romans1009
Only a Christian would be inspired to do the greatest of all good works - sharing the Gospel and leading someone to Christ.

As for the effect of other religions on a person's behavior, that’s hard to discuss further without some examples and evidence, which you seem strangely unwilling to provide.

Okay, let's consider Jainism. Not only does this religion teach salvation by perfection and good behavior (through successive lives) it even puts huge significance on non-injury to all living creatures (including insects).

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Okay, let's consider Jainism. Not only does this religion teach salvation by perfection and good behavior (through successive lives) it even puts huge significance on non-injury to all living creatures (including insects).

But does that show the effect on a person’s life and behavior or are you just identifying the religion’s principles?

Originally posted by @romans1009
But does that show the effect on a person’s life and behavior or are you just identifying the religion’s principles?

The religion encourages and inspires its followers to live better lives and care for all living creatures, as this is the key to their own salvation.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
The religion encourages and inspires its followers to live better lives and care for all living creatures, as this is the key to their own salvation.

I don’t dispute that religions have doctrines and guidelines to encourage people to live better lives and that the reward for obeying such doctrines and guidelines is a pleasant afterlife.

What I think this discussion had turned into was the impact of a religion on someone’s life. Not its potential impact.

But even then, are we properly judging the veracity of a religion by the criteria of what many secularists would view as a successful life?

Originally posted by @romans1009
I don’t dispute that religions have doctrines and guidelines to encourage people to live better lives and that the reward for obeying such doctrines and guidelines is a pleasant afterlife.

What I think this discussion had turned into was the impact of a religion on someone’s life. Not its potential impact.

But even then, are we properly judging the ...[text shortened]... veracity of a religion by the criteria of what many secularists would view as a successful life?

I wasn't referring to 'potential' impact. There are millions of Jainists out there, right now, living lives impacted (right now) by their belief in the importance of leading good lives and avoiding harm to other creatures.

Even as an atheist, I acknowledge that religion (all religions, not just Christianity) 'can' have a positive and admirable influence on how people conduct themselves. It is a mistake, however, to assume Christianity is unique in this regard.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
I wasn't referring to 'potential' impact. There are millions of Jainists out there, right now, living lives impacted (right now) by their belief in the importance of leading good lives and avoiding harm to other creatures.

Even as an atheist, I acknowledge that religion (all religions, not just Christianity) 'can' have a positive and admirable i ...[text shortened]... e conduct themselves. It is a mistake, however, to assume Christianity is unique in this regard.

I have never claimed Christianity is unique in this regard. I have said at least twice now that atheists and non-Christians are obviously capable of doing good works, which is why it’s so silly to believe salvation in Christianity is by works and not belief in Christ.

I have also said at least twice that the greatest of all good works - sharing the Gospel and leading someone to Christ - is generally, if not exclusively, done by Christians.

This latest discussion, as I understood it, was in the Holy Spirit’s power to change someone’s life after indwelling a new believer. For evidence of that, I think you have to look at testimonials of what someone was like before he or she became a Christian and what they are like after becoming a Christian.

FMF said hundreds of such testimonials exist for every religion but then declined to provide evidence of this claim.

Originally posted by @romans1009
As for the effect of other religions on a person's behavior, that’s hard to discuss further without some examples and evidence, which you seem strangely unwilling to provide.

I am fine with you not knowing ~ or claiming not to know ~ anything about other religions or about religion generally speaking. Religions all over the world are in part sustained by peephole perspectives and intense partisanship. You are not exhibiting anything new or surprising.

Originally posted by @romans1009
FMF said hundreds of such testimonials exist for every religion but then declined to provide evidence of this claim.

If you don't believe what I told you about Muslims in Indonesia, so be it.

Originally posted by @romans1009
[b]Only a Christian would be inspired to do the greatest of all good works - sharing the Gospel and leading someone to Christ.

If thinking this ~ that talking about your own religion to other people is a really important thing to do ~ makes you feel happy and significant, and even gives you a purpose in life, then that's OK by me. In so far as your beliefs result in morally sound behaviour, I don't much care what religion you profess.

Originally posted by @fmf
I am fine with you not knowing ~ or claiming not to know ~ anything about other religions or about religion generally speaking. Religions all over the world are in part sustained by peephole perspectives and intense partisanship. You are not exhibiting anything new or surprising.

We’re talking (I think) about the impact of a religion on someone’s life. You claimed hundreds of testimonials exist for every religion. I asked for a link or evidence of this and you refused to provide any.

You’re now apparently trying to cloud the issue to cover up your false statement. I understand that. If you can’t provide a link to some or any of the “hundreds” of testimonials of every religion, so be it. As you’re fond of saying, People will make of that what they will.

Originally posted by @fmf
If you don't believe what I told you about Muslims in Indonesia, so be it.

Your claim concerned “hundreds of testimonials” for every religion. Regarding your more narrowly defined claim of Muslims in Indonesia, I’d simply like to read the testimonials. Your refusal to provide a link to them is not surprising.

Originally posted by @fmf
If thinking this ~ that talking about your own religion to other people is a really important thing to do ~ makes you feel happy and significant, and even gives you a purpose in life, then that's OK by me. In so far as your beliefs result in morally sound behaviour, I don't much care what religion you profess.

As an atheist, you obviously wouldn’t see the value in sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That’s not surprising.