Originally posted by @romans1009There are "hundreds of testimonials on the Internet" of all the major religions having a positive effect on their adherents. I have not disputed for one minute the idea that religious faith - of any kind - can change a person or make them feel changed.
Well that’s more like it!
Originally posted by @fmfWithout seeing the testimonials, it’s impossible to ascertain how dramatic the change was, how long-lasting it was, the strength of the human support system that contributed to the change and a variety of other factors.
There are "hundreds of testimonials on the Internet" of all the major religions having a positive effect on their adherents. I have not disputed for one minute the idea that religious faith - of any kind - can change a person or make them feel changed.
You have to get into the weeds a little bit before adopting the position that every major religion is capable of turning someone’s life around. That’s why I wanted to see some of the hundreds of testimonials you said existed.
Originally posted by @romans1009People talking enthusiastically about their religions is merely evidence of the human condition and not evidence of any supernatural phenomena.
Without seeing the testimonials, it’s impossible to ascertain how dramatic the change was, how long-lasting it was, the strength of the human support system that contributed to the change and a variety of other factors.
You have to get into the weeds a little bit before adopting the position that every major religion is capable of turning someone’s life around. That’s why I wanted to see some of the hundreds of testimonials you said existed.
Originally posted by @fmfYou’re conflating “people talking enthusiastically about their religions” with people whose lives have been dramatically changed and who attribute that change to God. Two very different things.
People talking enthusiastically about their religions is merely evidence of the human condition and not evidence of any supernatural phenomena.
If you’re just going to shuffle your king back and forth, you might as well resign. Your position’s been a bust for quite a while.
Originally posted by @romans1009It's right to conflate it. It's the same aspect of human nature. nAnd in your case, it's just confirmation bias that feeds your superstitious outlook. Muslims get the same confirmation from listening to the testimonies of their fellow religionists on early morning TV here. To me, Christians' testimony about their faith affecting their lives [whether it be dramatically or whatever] is no more or less convincing [or remarkable, for that matter] than Muslims' testimony about their faith affecting their lives.
You’re conflating “people talking enthusiastically about their religions” with people whose lives have been dramatically changed and who attribute that change to God. Two very different things.
Originally posted by @fmfWell as I said earlier, without the ability to read and compare testimonials, you’re just whizzing in the wind.
It's right to conflate it. It's the same aspect of human nature. nAnd in your case, it's just confirmation bias that feeds your superstitious outlook. Muslims get the same confirmation from listening to the testimonies of their fellow religionists on early morning TV here. To me, Christians' testimony about their faith affecting their lives [whether it be drama ...[text shortened]... or remarkable, for that matter] than Muslims' testimony about their faith affecting their lives.
Originally posted by @romans1009I am just sharing my non-Christian and international perspective.
Well as I said earlier, without the ability to read and compare testimonials, you’re just whizzing in the wind.
Originally posted by @romans1009I don't think this metaphor applies. We are a non-Christian and a Christian swapping perspectives. There is nothing "hopeless" about it.
You’re shuffling your king back and forth in a hopeless position.